I like COVID 19

[Caballus]

I agree that freedom doesn't exclude compassion. Right now we don't have freedom. I understand why and maybe it's for the best (short term only), but hopefully we can get the freedom back very soon.

I believe we have freedom. However, as the saying goes, "your freedom to swing your fist ends where the other man's nose begins." The restrictions being put in place are being done in context of a free society, hence the reason there are limits to the federal mandates.

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[Hack]

Single example, not single hospital. Plenty of reports of similar situations elsewhere. Regarding the Comfort and Mercy, if they were just in case, they would not be seeing patients and manning remote sites. To not acknowledge the overwhelming load being placed on our health care system, and particularly on our workers, is to disrespect the workers who are trying to communicate the system. That would be considered out of touch HHQ (higher headquarters) syndrome--not listening to the ground truth coming from the troops in the field.

Regarding going about life and worrying about the effects on oneself. That would be totally acceptable if no one else were affected. However, just as there are laws against speeding in a school zone, there are policies and restrictions designed to protect others from the irresponsible spread of this disease. How restrictive is too restrictive? That's up to society to say.

Locally to me nurses are being furloughed because elective surgeries are postponed and there isn't enough work.

Just a data point that isn't out of touch with what is really happening in the field.

 

[Caballus]

Locally to me nurses are being furloughed because elective surgeries are postponed and there isn't enough work.

Just a data point that isn't out of touch with what is really happening in the field.

The problem is that every place that was not heavily impacted, but continued with business as usual, ultimately became heavily impacted. A two-week flash to bang doesn't leave much room to ignore the disease and not get punished for it.

 

[Hack]

The problem is that every place that was not heavily impacted, but continued with business as usual, ultimately became heavily impacted. A two-week flash to bang doesn't leave much room to ignore the disease and not get punished for it.

"Every" place is a lot of places. I don't believe what you are saying is correct. Some states in the US still have very few cases or deaths.

 

[Caballus]

"Every" place is a lot of places. I don't believe what you are saying is correct. Some states in the US still have very few cases or deaths.

And the people of those states are allowed to determine what measures they put in place, to the degree that they do not infect people from other states.

 

[Docscurlock]

So there is a single hospital in a country with socialized medicine that WORRIED about being overwhelmed. But it didn't happen. They just got nervous because they saw a big increase happen quickly. Don't get me wrong, I don't blame them for being nervous.

Hospital in Grand Rapids Mi took over a building at Grand Valley state University for overflow patients from CV19.

 

[Hack]

Hospital in Grand Rapids Mi took over a building at Grand Valley state University for overflow patients from CV19.

Are they using the second building due to being over capacity, or is it there just in case something happens or as a way to separate the patients? Not trying to be overly anal, I just noticed that what you said didn't specify what was the case. I'm open to being convinced and I want real information out there. I don't have an agenda here other than wanting to know the truth.

I heard that the initial models from the experts predicted something like 10X more cases and that we would need 40x more ventilators than we have needed so far. My understanding is that the experts are revising their estimates downward. It's a good thing and hopefully they are correct in their belief that the early estimates were extremely exaggerated.

Edit: here's a sample story about a model - not the drastic changes I heard about but downward estimates none the less: https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/04/coronavirus-model-now-predicts-many-fewer-u-s-deaths.html

 

[Caballus]

Are they using the second building due to being over capacity, or is it there just in case something happens or as a way to separate the patients? Not trying to be overly anal, I just noticed that what you said didn't specify what was the case. I'm open to being convinced and I want real information out there. I don't have an agenda here other than wanting to know the truth.

I heard that the initial models from the experts predicted something like 10X more cases and that we would need 40x more ventilators than we have needed so far. My understanding is that the experts are revising their estimates downward. It's a good thing and hopefully they are correct in their belief that the early estimates were extremely exaggerated.

Edit: here's a sample story about a model - not the drastic changes I heard about but downward estimates none the less: https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/04/coronavirus-model-now-predicts-many-fewer-u-s-deaths.html

I know your are not a "gotcha" type person, but this discussion seems to be at risk of becoming that. Below is the start of the topic of hospitals becoming overwhelmed:

I think there are two key points. 1) Obviously the ultimate objective is to limit death, but the bigger immediate challenge is that COVID is overwhelming hospitals. The average person who catches a cold or the flu is not hospitalized. The extreme ICU cases (like PM Boris Johnson) are the ones getting most of the attention, but as my organization's surgeon (an infectious disease expert whose office is three doors down from mine) stresses, the average patient simply needs oxygen. That patient consumes resources too...

Have some hospitals been overwhelmed? I've only heard people saying they will be, not that any actually have.

The answer to that question is yes, "some hospitals have been overwhelmed." The original context is found in post 365, where you offer an opinion that the problem of COVID is overstated and society is overreacting (my interpretation). So, if we go back to the overwhelmed discussion, yes, if we do not stay on track, hospitals will be overwhelmed and some already are. The article you provided agrees:

"Though the update of the model appears to be good news, at least for now, Murray counseled caution. “If social-distancing measures are relaxed or not implemented, the U.S. will see greater death tolls, the death peak will be later, the burden on hospitals will be much greater, and the economic costs will continue to grow,” he said."

 

[Docscurlock]

Are they using the second building due to being over capacity, or is it there just in case something happens or as a way to separate the patients? Not trying to be overly anal, I just noticed that what you said didn't specify what was the case. I'm open to being convinced and I want real information out there. I don't have an agenda here other than wanting to know the truth.

I heard that the initial models from the experts predicted something like 10X more cases and that we would need 40x more ventilators than we have needed so far. My understanding is that the experts are revising their estimates downward. It's a good thing and hopefully they are correct in their belief that the early estimates were extremely exaggerated.

Edit: here's a sample story about a model - not the drastic changes I heard about but downward estimates none the less: https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/04/coronavirus-model-now-predicts-many-fewer-u-s-deaths.html

Have you ever been in a hospital? Usually only one floor is set up for ICU which includes all the fancy gadgets and respirators and fluid pumps. That is what 25 rooms or 30? The rest of the floors are set up for imaging, neo natal care, hip replacements, surgery etc. Can't really put infectious disease patients on the same floor as all these people or you might as well shoot them. So, the hospitals only have room for 25 patients, 50 if you double them up. The rest of the hospital is full of other sick people and new babies and such. The ICU floor at the hospital my brother works at (fixes their elevators) is full, they are moving ICU equipment into the Grand Valley State Univ building because there is no more room there without closing the hospital down to everyone else and unfortunately people are getting sick with all the same stuff they used too like heart attacks and strokes. That is why they are setting up the field hospitals on NY and LA, the ICU rooms are full and they need a place to work on all the extra sick people.

If people would cooperate and stay away from each other and not get CV19, the hospitals could catch up. Around here, get caught doing non essential stuff in public, it is a $500 fine.

 

[Hack]

Have you ever been in a hospital? Usually only one floor is set up for ICU which includes all the fancy gadgets and respirators and fluid pumps. That is what 25 rooms or 30? The rest of the floors are set up for imaging, neo natal care, hip replacements, surgery etc. Can't really put infectious disease patients on the same floor as all these people or you might as well shoot them. So, the hospitals only have room for 25 patients, 50 if you double them up. The rest of the hospital is full of other sick people and new babies and such. The ICU floor at the hospital my brother works at (fixes their elevators) is full, they are moving ICU equipment into the Grand Valley State Univ building because there is no more room there without closing the hospital down to everyone else and unfortunately people are getting sick with all the same stuff they used too like heart attacks and strokes. That is why they are setting up the field hospitals on NY and LA, the ICU rooms are full and they need a place to work on all the extra sick people.

If people would cooperate and stay away from each other and not get CV19, the hospitals could catch up. Around here, get caught doing non essential stuff in public, it is a $500 fine.

I've been in hospitals. Yes it takes work to modify rooms for different usages. However it can be done. I'm not paying attention, but I did see something about equipment used to produce negative pressure. Reminded me of asbestos remediation in places that do that with strict controls.

Frankly it freaks me out that the authorities are talking about fining people for doing "non essentials" in public. It's a totalitarian's dream.

I know your are not a "gotcha" type person, but this discussion seems to be at risk of becoming that. Below is the start of the topic of hospitals becoming overwhelmed:

The answer to that question is yes, "some hospitals have been overwhelmed." The original context is found in post 365, where you offer an opinion that the problem of COVID is overstated and society is overreacting (my interpretation). So, if we go back to the overwhelmed discussion, yes, if we do not stay on track, hospitals will be overwhelmed and some already are. The article you provided agrees:

"Though the update of the model appears to be good news, at least for now, Murray counseled caution. “If social-distancing measures are relaxed or not implemented, the U.S. will see greater death tolls, the death peak will be later, the burden on hospitals will be much greater, and the economic costs will continue to grow,” he said."

Yep the "experts" are advising caution - as they should. Frankly the more time passes the more I think it was hugely overstated originally. At first I had a very open mind and I was definitely worried. I remember when a number of 2 million dead Americans was floated. I realize there was no deadline with that number, but I was assuming it meant in the next few months (starting from late January). Now a few months have passed and we have ~11,000. That original number seemed insane to me, but I was trying really hard to reserve judgement. Now we have a lot more information and most of it contradicts those early statements (in my opinion).

I'm not trying to do a gotcha thing. I'm merely trying to separate reality and facts from the fear mongering. And in my own interests I'm questioning dictatorial/totalitarian infringements to the American people along with huge left wing style handouts that are being implemented by the government.

 

[Docscurlock]

I've been in hospitals. Yes it takes work to modify rooms for different usages. However it can be done. I'm not paying attention, but I did see something about equipment used to produce negative pressure. Reminded me of asbestos remediation in places that do that with strict controls.

Frankly it freaks me out that the authorities are talking about fining people for doing "non essentials" in public. It's a totalitarian's dream.

.

My brother is doing the negative pressure work in the elevators, that is why he is there. Without negative pressure, the virus will fill the entire hospital. Maintaining an infectious disease treatment ward is a lot of work or it just becomes a big nidus for infection for everyone.


I am all about personal freedom but when acting like a dipshit put's people's lives at risk there needs to be consequences.

 

[Hack]

My brother is doing the negative pressure work in the elevators, that is why he is there. Without negative pressure, the virus will fill the entire hospital. Maintaining an infectious disease treatment ward is a lot of work or it just becomes a big nidus for infection for everyone.


I am all about personal freedom but when acting like a dipshit put's people's lives at risk there needs to be consequences.

There have always been consequences for that. And I agree with consequences, but only for doing bad stuff... not if people can be prosecuted for having a cold or going for a drive. There's nothing wrong with going for a drive. That is going way too far putting so many limitations on people.

I'm surprised how easily people are willing to give up their freedom. Last year I could have had the flu or a cold and infected people and they could have died. Don't even try to tell me you never, ever left your house when you were sick in the past. I don't think that someone who may or may not have a disease should be locked up. The people who don't want to catch the disease should lock themselves up - but only if that's what they want to do.

 

[Docscurlock]

There have always been consequences for that. And I agree with consequences, but only for doing bad stuff... not if people can be prosecuted for having a cold or going for a drive. There's nothing wrong with going for a drive. That is going way too far putting so many limitations on people.

I'm surprised how easily people are willing to give up their freedom. Last year I could have had the flu or a cold and infected people and they could have died. Don't even try to tell me you never, ever left your house when you were sick in the past. I don't think that someone who may or may not have a disease should be locked up. The people who don't want to catch the disease should lock themselves up - but only if that's what they want to do.

I think your opinion is very shortsighted, Like I said I am all about personal freedom but maybe it is just me not wanting to see any of my family dead from CV19. I have to be open to exposure all day at work so I guess being able to be a hermit at night is ok with me. Go ahead and drive around then, me, I will stay home, stay out of the stores and try and stay healthy. Maybe we should have people sign waivers, enjoy your personal freedom but no medical care or limited meds for you if you decide not to self quarantine. sounds fair to me

I am going to go out of my way not to be brought down from some damn dirty Chinese virus. I have different plans for my life and stuff I want to accomplish yet. I would even go as far as saying in the future anyone coming back from that shithole needs to be quarantined for 2 weeks.

 

[Hack]

I think your opinion is very shortsighted, Like I said I am all about personal freedom but maybe it is just me not wanting to see any of my family dead from CV19. I have to be open to exposure all day at work so I guess being able to be a hermit at night is ok with me. Go ahead and drive around then, me, I will stay home, stay out of the stores and try and stay healthy. Maybe we should have people sign waivers, enjoy your personal freedom but no medical care or limited meds for you if you decide not to self quarantine. sounds fair to me

I am going to go out of my way not to be brought down from some damn dirty Chinese virus. I have different plans for my life and stuff I want to accomplish yet. I would even go as far as saying in the future anyone coming back from that shithole needs to be quarantined for 2 weeks.

I have very little exposure to other people. 99% of the time I'm in my house now. I'm a very careful person. I'm just very against mandatory loss of freedom.

I don't think jokes about killing people by withholding treatment because you disagree with their views are funny, frankly. I have plans too, but I am not going to live my life in fear.

 

[Docscurlock]

I have very little exposure to other people. 99% of the time I'm in my house now. I'm a very careful person. I'm just very against mandatory loss of freedom.

I don't think jokes about killing people by withholding treatment because you disagree with their views are funny, frankly. I have plans too, but I am not going to live my life in fear.

I have told you I am all about personal freedom too but not in the face of a deadly pandemic. I was not joking, if people fail to take this seriously it is their just rewards. You have no idea the amount of dumbfuckery I have seen out of people. I am not living in fear either, I am just taking it seriously.

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