Sponsored

Edelbrock E-Force Troubleshooting Manual

gjpundsack

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 12, 2016
Threads
34
Messages
138
Reaction score
29
Location
Scottsdale, AZ
Website
www.thewaltermittygarage.com
First Name
Gary
Vehicle(s)
2017 Mustang GT 5.0; AT; 355's
What is the spread between ECT and IAT temps you are all seeing in street use? Clarify it easily, if you will, by stating both temps you've observed in daily driving.
Sponsored

 

West TX GT

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 19, 2016
Threads
21
Messages
604
Reaction score
128
Location
Texas
First Name
Ian
Vehicle(s)
2018 Royal Crimson GT
I don't know what else to call it, but if you put the shifter in S it will hold the gear you put it in with the paddles for 30 seconds or so. Makes it easier to get that 2nd gear thirty roll or whatever you want.
 

Burkey

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 9, 2016
Threads
87
Messages
5,541
Reaction score
3,520
Location
Australia
Vehicle(s)
2016 Mustang GT
Vehicle Showcase
1
What is the spread between ECT and IAT temps you are all seeing in street use? Clarify it easily, if you will, by stating both temps you've observed in daily driving.
It’s difficult to quantify properly and my results may vary from the norm due to phenolic spacers but-
30*c (86*f) ambient, IAT 33-38*c (90-100*f) for normal street driving, some boost.
Same ambient but repeated and consistent boost might see it reach 110*f

Here’s where it gets weird.
48*c (118*f) ambient, normal driving, light boost usage (cos it’s hot) IAT 122*f

Obviously time at the lights and cruise speed are going to play a role as well, so I wouldn’t take these findings too seriously.
I don’t look at ECT/CHT anywhere near as often as I probably should.
 
OP
OP
Jobodizo

Jobodizo

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 16, 2016
Threads
66
Messages
599
Reaction score
194
Location
Kentucky
Vehicle(s)
2015 DIB GT
Vehicle Showcase
3
What is the spread between ECT and IAT temps you are all seeing in street use? Clarify it easily, if you will, by stating both temps you've observed in daily driving.
Here's my results as posted many, many months ago. I'd say the values are still pretty much the same, granted with variation now because it's a high of 30*F here right now. My ECT stays normally between 190-196 (stock tstat) and my CHT ranges from 200-208.

All of these are at 70mph constant interstate cruising as measured by ngauge IAT vs info ambient reading:

A. Completely stock: 15-21*F over ambient
B. Stock hood w/o rear seal: 7-12*F over ambient
C. Stalker, no duct (wide open): 1-2*F over ambient
D. Stalker, w/ duct: 7-12*F over ambient
 

mikengail

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2014
Threads
4
Messages
199
Reaction score
148
Location
Albuquerque, NM
First Name
Mike
Vehicle(s)
2018 Mustang GT Premium Convertible A10
Same. We got to something like 14 revisions and it’s still not “perfect” but falls into the “acceptable but only just” category.
On another note, my car has developed a vacuum leak (yay) and the car is literally impossible to drive on PBD tune in this condition whilst I can get away with it on Lund tune.
The difference being a tune that’s almost perfect being able to cope with it while the other just can’t.
Sorry that it took me so long to get back on this issue. I'm at 11 revisions and still have the part throttle bucking/surging. Very light throttle is acceptable and WOT is great. Any moderate to heavy part throttle is like riding a wild bull. Having the "pill" in or out has no effect.

Since I last visited this topic, I've been on a hunt for any kind of hardware issue(s), before contacting Edelbrock Support. I've had O2's tested; had a carburetor cleaner vacuum test done; and, just had a smoke test for vacuum leaks done today. Everything checks out good.

PBD hasn't answered my last two emails so I'm left trying to deal with Edelbrock for any possible hardware issues related to the manufacture of the kit itself. I could try a Lund tune, but I want to be certain there are no hardware issues of any kind from any source, before doing so.

I'm thinking of following this plan:

1. Contact Edelbrock for their base tune and load it up to see whether or not the part throttle bucking/surging is affected.

2. If the base Edelbrock tune helps, then I might try datalogging with Edelbrock to get it all smoothed out.

3. If it solves the problem, then I'll reach out to PBD one last time to see, if they can update their latest version of my tune to get smooth part throttle acceleration.

4. If PBD does respond this time and they still can't fix the part throttle issue, then I'll try Lund.

5. If PBD doesn't respond, then trying Lund is a foregone conclusion.

Can you think of anything else I might try? I'm at a loss for why this problem still exists and I'm running low on possible solutions. I know that the 10r80 is tough to tune for TVS cars, but not impossible. One of the questions I'll have for Edelbrock Support is whether or not a defective bypass valve could cause my problem. I was talking to a guy who manufactures and sells turbo kits and who also took a look at my supercharger and suggested that the diaphragm for the bypass valve looked to be on the small side and thus extremely sensitive, perhaps overly so. Speculative, I know, but we've already seen how poorly designed the fastening process is for the fuel rails.

Anyway, just keeping you updated. I'll post more, if anything changes, good or bad. Lol...
 

Sponsored

Mustanggtvert32907

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2019
Threads
43
Messages
208
Reaction score
27
Location
Palm Bay fl
First Name
michael
Vehicle(s)
2019 Mustang GT convertible
I
Sorry that it took me so long to get back on this issue. I'm at 11 revisions and still have the part throttle bucking/surging. Very light throttle is acceptable and WOT is great. Any moderate to heavy part throttle is like riding a wild bull. Having the "pill" in or out has no effect.

Since I last visited this topic, I've been on a hunt for any kind of hardware issue(s), before contacting Edelbrock Support. I've had O2's tested; had a carburetor cleaner vacuum test done; and, just had a smoke test for vacuum leaks done today. Everything checks out good.

PBD hasn't answered my last two emails so I'm left trying to deal with Edelbrock for any possible hardware issues related to the manufacture of the kit itself. I could try a Lund tune, but I want to be certain there are no hardware issues of any kind from any source, before doing so.

I'm thinking of following this plan:

1. Contact Edelbrock for their base tune and load it up to see whether or not the part throttle bucking/surging is affected.

2. If the base Edelbrock tune helps, then I might try datalogging with Edelbrock to get it all smoothed out.

3. If it solves the problem, then I'll reach out to PBD one last time to see, if they can update their latest version of my tune to get smooth part throttle acceleration.

4. If PBD does respond this time and they still can't fix the part throttle issue, then I'll try Lund.

5. If PBD doesn't respond, then trying Lund is a foregone conclusion.

Can you think of anything else I might try? I'm at a loss for why this problem still exists and I'm running low on possible solutions. I know that the 10r80 is tough to tune for TVS cars, but not impossible. One of the questions I'll have for Edelbrock Support is whether or not a defective bypass valve could cause my problem. I was talking to a guy who manufactures and sells turbo kits and who also took a look at my supercharger and suggested that the diaphragm for the bypass valve looked to be on the small side and thus extremely sensitive, perhaps overly so. Speculative, I know, but we've already seen how poorly designed the fastening process is for the fuel rails.

Anyway, just keeping you updated. I'll post more, if anything changes, good or bad. Lol...
id check your pistons mine was acting like that and cylinder 3 was toast
 
OP
OP
Jobodizo

Jobodizo

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 16, 2016
Threads
66
Messages
599
Reaction score
194
Location
Kentucky
Vehicle(s)
2015 DIB GT
Vehicle Showcase
3
@mikengail do you have a vacuum/boost gauge to see if the car is going in and out of boost during the bucking?

Also as an FYI to everybody, after MULTIPLE attempts I’ve settled on .025” orifice as the best overall size for the bypass hose. It gives you a nice quick transition while still dampening it and keeping the valve from fluttering. I mention it mostly because my car was bucking falling in and out of boost when I had some of the larger sized orifices in there.
 

mikengail

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2014
Threads
4
Messages
199
Reaction score
148
Location
Albuquerque, NM
First Name
Mike
Vehicle(s)
2018 Mustang GT Premium Convertible A10
@mikengail do you have a vacuum/boost gauge to see if the car is going in and out of boost during the bucking?

Also as an FYI to everybody, after MULTIPLE attempts I’ve settled on .025” orifice as the best overall size for the bypass hose. It gives you a nice quick transition while still dampening it and keeping the valve from fluttering. I mention it mostly because my car was bucking falling in and out of boost when I had some of the larger sized orifices in there.
I don't have a dedicated boost gauge, yet. I use the "stock" Edelbrock .015" nitrous jet, but the bucking doesn't change with the jet completely out either.

One other unusual behavior my setup exhibits though is an unsteady fast idle. The car will oscillate in rpm up and down in rhythm with a fluctuation in AFR. I've mentioned this to PBD and they haven't mentioned any correlation to the part throttle issues. They also haven't been able to tune it out. This rpm oscillation will also present itself going up steep hills with the Cruise Control engaged. Again, in that scenario as well, the AFR will fluctuate with the RMP variances. I don't know which is the cause or effect? SMH...
 

Burkey

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 9, 2016
Threads
87
Messages
5,541
Reaction score
3,520
Location
Australia
Vehicle(s)
2016 Mustang GT
Vehicle Showcase
1
I don't have a dedicated boost gauge, yet. I use the "stock" Edelbrock .015" nitrous jet, but the bucking doesn't change with the jet completely out either.

One other unusual behavior my setup exhibits though is an unsteady fast idle. The car will oscillate in rpm up and down in rhythm with a fluctuation in AFR. I've mentioned this to PBD and they haven't mentioned any correlation to the part throttle issues. They also haven't been able to tune it out. This rpm oscillation will also present itself going up steep hills with the Cruise Control engaged. Again, in that scenario as well, the AFR will fluctuate with the RMP variances. I don't know which is the cause or effect? SMH...
A couple of things:
Can you post a video of the AFR output on the dash, at idle, warm car?
What you describe with “part throttle” sounds a lot like what goes on with mine. It’s perfectly fine up to a point, but if I hit a critical step, the car will buck. I don’t believe the issue is inherent to the hardware per se. If it was Lund wouldn’t have a way around it.
As others have said, I suspect it’s entirely related to the TRIGGERING of the bypass and it’s fluctuation occurs as a result of the input (vac/boost).
I think Lund get around this by having a much softer pedal, meaning that when you hit the threshold for boost to happen, it’s likely that the vacuum (or rather absence of) is great enough to maintain the bypass closure, where the more rapid action of the PBD pedal means that if your foot comes off the pedal even 1mm as the car moves into boost (which is highly likely because acceleration) the vacuum equation is disturbed, and so on and so forth - surge,slow, surge, slow. At this point, your foot is now bouncing on and off the pedal, making it worse.
I just drive around it. Either drive very sedately or give it enough of a prod to close the valve, spin the tyres, swap gear, repeat. The car moves forward without bucking and there’s a bit of a show for the people watching. :rockon:
i suspect that having the pill in would help somewhat but it doesn’t suit my personal preference for instant neck-snapping power.
 
Last edited:

Burkey

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 9, 2016
Threads
87
Messages
5,541
Reaction score
3,520
Location
Australia
Vehicle(s)
2016 Mustang GT
Vehicle Showcase
1
I don't have a dedicated boost gauge, yet. I use the "stock" Edelbrock .015" nitrous jet, but the bucking doesn't change with the jet completely out either.

One other unusual behavior my setup exhibits though is an unsteady fast idle. The car will oscillate in rpm up and down in rhythm with a fluctuation in AFR. I've mentioned this to PBD and they haven't mentioned any correlation to the part throttle issues. They also haven't been able to tune it out. This rpm oscillation will also present itself going up steep hills with the Cruise Control engaged. Again, in that scenario as well, the AFR will fluctuate with the RMP variances. I don't know which is the cause or effect? SMH...
One other thing.
For the sake of science, try placing the car in snow/wet mode and see what happens.
 

Sponsored

mikengail

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2014
Threads
4
Messages
199
Reaction score
148
Location
Albuquerque, NM
First Name
Mike
Vehicle(s)
2018 Mustang GT Premium Convertible A10
One other thing.
For the sake of science, try placing the car in snow/wet mode and see what happens.
I'll get around to the video and post. I've tried "Snow/Wet", but I can't remember what happened. This has been a long, drawn out ordeal thus far. Lol. I'll let you know. Thanks...
 

Burkey

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 9, 2016
Threads
87
Messages
5,541
Reaction score
3,520
Location
Australia
Vehicle(s)
2016 Mustang GT
Vehicle Showcase
1
I'll get around to the video and post. I've tried "Snow/Wet", but I can't remember what happened. This has been a long, drawn out ordeal thus far. Lol. I'll let you know. Thanks...
Too easy mate. I just hope you can get to the bottom of it.
 

wsfrazier

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2015
Threads
51
Messages
422
Reaction score
91
Location
Pittsburgh, PA
Vehicle(s)
2019 GT PP1 M6 401a
I was having the same surging/bucking issues and also tuned by PBD. Rob ended up pretty much ghosting me when it was obvious his revisions weren't doing anything. I ended up getting my money back from PBD, but I had to force their hand to do it. I don't see how other PBD tuned Edelbrock cars are supposedly driving around fine, maybe my standards for what is acceptable drivability is just higher on a modified car?
 

Braski

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 4, 2015
Threads
79
Messages
2,084
Reaction score
957
Location
Lancaster, PA
Vehicle(s)
Traded 2015 Blk GT Prem PP on 2019 Corvette GS 2LT M7
Vehicle Showcase
1
How comes other brands dont have a 63 page trouble shooting manual? Overall I'm happy with my E-force kit but there does seem to be alot of issues compared to other brands.
 

Torinate

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2018
Threads
81
Messages
1,900
Reaction score
838
Location
Ontario
Vehicle(s)
2016 GT Convertible
119 pages for the Roush.

Numerous threads for the Whipple.

Just the way things are. There’s no power adder that is seamless or flawless.

Just my 2 cents...
Sponsored

 
 




Top