GT500 vs ZLE

[thill444]

Great comments and good debate here.

FWIW, Multimatic does not do aftermarket.Their software engineers are contracted by the builder to design/fabricate spool valve dampers for specifically targeted performance objectives.

Agreed. Because it’s a purpose built track car. Do people tolerate it for the street? Sure. But it’s not for everyone and Ford gave up some track performance to have a more balanced car for the street. They did the same with the 350R. It’s more track focused but not so much that it becomes overly compromised for the street.

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[02gtnh]

Agreed. Because it’s a purpose built track car. Do people tolerate it for the street? Sure. But it’s not for everyone and Ford gave up some track performance to have a more balanced car for the street. They did the same with the 350R. It’s more track focused but not so much that it becomes overly compromised for the street.

But that is what the base gt350 and gt500 are for just like the zl1. Why limit builds of a track built car, yet not fully build it? It’s not like there building 5000 a year. This would imho make the R and CFTP more special being a track car. They use the carbon wheels to really make it special, but you take them out, there really is much difference between a base and track car. I wonder if those who bought the R and CFTP would of sacrificed the $12,000 carbon wheels for a more dedicated track suspension instead. Then they would have a limited track focused car. IMHO.

 

[Hack]

Bushings won't solve the damping choice.

Agreed 100%. I was trying to make a point about how far they went to accomplish their goals.

But that is what the base gt350 and gt500 are for just like the zl1. Why limit builds of a track built car, yet not fully build it? It’s not like there building 5000 a year. This would imho make the R and CFTP more special being a track car. They use the carbon wheels to really make it special, but you take them out, there really is much difference between a base and track car. I wonder if those who bought the R and CFTP would of sacrificed the $12,000 carbon wheels for a more dedicated track suspension instead. Then they would have a limited track focused car. IMHO.

A lot of the Ford guys think that too. I'm not really in that camp, but I get it. Ford could start with a Mustang GT4 and then put a twin turbo built 5.0 engine making over 1,000 hp in it, sequential gear box or DCT, carbon brakes, etc. It would be really quick on a track.

 

[newmoon]

But that is what the base gt350 and gt500 are for just like the zl1. Why limit builds of a track built car, yet not fully build it? It’s not like there building 5000 a year. This would imho make the R and CFTP more special being a track car. They use the carbon wheels to really make it special, but you take them out, there really is much difference between a base and track car. I wonder if those who bought the R and CFTP would of sacrificed the $12,000 carbon wheels for a more dedicated track suspension instead. Then they would have a limited track focused car. IMHO.

Maybe Ford paid attention to what happened with the Z28 and now the ZLE, make it too hardcore on the suspension and people won't buy it, thus large discounts very quickly once word gets out.

 

[02gtnh]

Maybe Ford paid attention to what happened with the Z28 and now the ZLE, make it too hardcore on the suspension and people won't buy it, thus large discounts very quickly once word gets out.

IMHO GM downfall wasn’t making it to hardcore, it was making to many of them. If they did what Ford did and limit the build to 500 a year, the market would not be flooded. I believe the 2nd year of the z28, they built near 5000. Your not going to get that many track focused buyers. The 1le was said to be limited, yet they threw that out the window and kept building. Ford knows how to limit builds and keep interest.

 

[FastCarFanBoy]

Can we get these two head to head on a proper road course under ideal conditions and see which one is faster?

There are tracks that have perfect weather days during the winter in the south and southwest.

Maybe I need to google ZLE vs 911 GT3 RS and see the time difference since the GT500 was pretty much a dead heat against one.

Edit: I just found the video from that little known track in Germany. ZLE lost by about 20 seconds to the GT3.

Take Porsche's ring times with a grain of salt. They are notorious for bending the rules of what is considered a production car. Also the ring GT3RS was on Cup2R's the RS that ran at Chuckwalla was on regular Cup2's

 

[Houston Kid]

Take Porsche's ring times with a grain of salt. They are notorious for bending the rules of what is considered a production car. Also the ring GT3RS was on Cup2R's the RS that ran at Chuckwalla was on regular Cup2's

In the GT3 vs GT500 video, the GT3 was running better tires than the GT500. So is the 500 faster with equal tires?

That was my understanding anyway. I’ve been wrong before and I’ll be wrong again.

 

[02gtnh]

In the GT3 vs GT500 video, the GT3 was running better tires than the GT500. So is the 500 faster with equal tires?

That was my understanding anyway. I’ve been wrong before and I’ll be wrong again.

They were the same tires. Reg cup2’s

 

[ZRacerLE]

Maybe Ford paid attention to what happened with the Z28 and now the ZLE, make it too hardcore on the suspension and people won't buy it, thus large discounts very quickly once word gets out.

I think this is what happened

 

[SCCA Racer #75]

if i win the stangmode giveway car, ill roadcourse track that one lolol

Why would you do that, you'll just make 'more excuses'.

Your posts have been hilarious... now you say you 'can tell people's personality's'? You asked for facts... I gave you facts... then you keep switching the story up... the FACT is a NEW ZL1 1LE will SMOKE your car at the road course... and it will SMOKE ANY 4 seater at ANY PRICE! You continue to use '$100K'... why not use $80K? Oh wait... because that doesn't help your argument.

Real world.. almost NO ONE is getting a CFTP car for less than $100K... and EVERYONE is getting a ZL1 1LE for $65K or less...

The only thing you are winning is the quarter mile. Which 760 HP had better... yet... if you want a '4 seater stock daily driver' to tear up the corners... you'll need a Camaro. ;)

So instead of just recognizing the GT500 is indeed a great ride... you're KoolAid drinking is a complete turn off... since you make up your own scenario's to try and feel superior.

Yet, if it's a braking contest, a handling contest or a skid pad contest... you lose. So isn't it just what is important to the owner? If you want to go fast in a straight line... and have a great all around car... I think the GT500 is great. But it doesn't meant it's 'THE BEST CAR FOR LESS THAN $100K'... (even though you can't get a CFTP for that price)... and frankly it just lost to the Camaro in the latest C&D test. While we know those are just 'paid opinions'... the track instruments spoke clearly (even though you continue to try to dismiss them)... the GT500 is a beast in a straight line... but lagging in the handling departments... which at some tracks... an extra 100HP will make up for that.

If I get a GT500 down the road... I clearly won't be the fanboi you are... Man, you act like this is your first new car?? Maybe it is??

Dave

 

[V00D00]

yea, why didnt ford build a car that nobody could tolerate.. stupid ford.. next thing ya know theyll have it weigh over 4k lbs, good luck getting that thing to be fast a round a track, or run mid 10s on the strip

 

[thill444]

I think you are spot on. Ford wants to sell cars and make money. The Gen6 Z28 was cancelled for a reason.

The guys who want a hardcore track focused GT500 will go aftermarket.

Maybe Ford paid attention to what happened with the Z28 and now the ZLE, make it too hardcore on the suspension and people won't buy it, thus large discounts very quickly once word gets out.

 

[V00D00]

Why would you do that, you'll just make 'more excuses'.

name an excuse? I dont lik the wear and tear a track day incurs. If i had a 2nd 500, i wouldnt mind it

Your posts have been hilarious... now you say you 'can tell people's personality's'?

yes, want me to review yours?


You asked for facts... I gave you facts...

you didnt state facts



then you keep switching the story up... the FACT is a NEW ZL1 1LE will SMOKE your car at the road course...

is that a fact? because you havent shown it yet ( again)


and it will SMOKE ANY 4 seater at ANY PRICE! You continue to use '$100K'... why not use $80K? Oh wait... because that doesn't help your argument.

Actually, we can go to 80k as well, since youhave no data.



Real world.. almost NO ONE is getting a CFTP car for less than $100K... and EVERYONE is getting a ZL1 1LE for $65K or less...


almost or no one? you dont know that, more baseless claims- par for you.

no one cares about a 1le because they are not selling. thats the same argument as telling investores to buy copper instead of gold.. it costs less, and there is more of it.. therefor its a better bargain

The only thing you are winning is the quarter mile. Which 760 HP had better... yet... if you want a '4 seater stock daily driver' to tear up the corners... you'll need a Camaro. ;)

It also wint the long term ownership apeal, since the ride quality and view dont hinder the enjoyment. and again, track times are speculative


So instead of just recognizing the GT500 is indeed a great ride... you're KoolAid drinking is a complete turn off... since you make up your own scenario's to try and feel superior.

name a scenario thats made up?


Yet, if it's a braking contest, a handling contest or a skid pad contest... you lose.


are these the tests now, talk about making up scenarios to fit your narrative lolololol


So isn't it just what is important to the owner?

sure, seeing is one of them. but to your pint directly. if i want a TRACK ONLY WEAPON, a Camaro is likely last on that list. who TF buys a brand new ar for ONLY that? your avatar says you dont even do that lol.


If you want to go fast in a straight line... and have a great all around car... I think the GT500 is great. But it doesn't meant it's 'THE BEST CAR FOR LESS THAN $100K'...
it kinda does if it cant be beat by any other car in all 3, nay, 4 metrics

(even though you can't get a CFTP for that price)... and frankly it just lost to the Camaro in the latest C&D test.

this is the 5th time you referenced an article, that has no real results.. care to share the track times? or wait, is this still the youtubers are faster than pobst, AND pobst was NOt sandbagging the 500 theory?


While we know those are just 'paid opinions'... the track instruments spoke clearly (even though you continue to try to dismiss them)... the GT500 is a beast in a straight line... but lagging in the handling departments... which at some tracks... an extra 100HP will make up for that.

hwo does the 1le fair against the gt3rs? ive asked this several times, never a response

If I get a GT500 down the road... I clearly won't be the fanboi you are... Man, you act like this is your first new car?? Maybe it is??

ohh, personal insults.. i love it. clearly a fine and upstanding gentleman. "when debate is lost.."
well, a guy like you im sure knows how that ends

Dave

hope to see you in a 500.. Oh, im sorry. by the look of your post history, you really only started to get salty on the 500, when your order got denied.. ever since then your just another salty guy tht wants to bring everyone else down. so yea, to recap, i pretty much know your personality

 

[waterman]

Agreed. Because it’s a purpose built track car. Do people tolerate it for the street? Sure. But it’s not for everyone and Ford gave up some track performance to have a more balanced car for the street. They did the same with the 350R. It’s more track focused but not so much that it becomes overly compromised for the street.

Good points.

Purpose built track car? Well, in a way. IMO, way too much extra fat and creature comforts to wear that badge. None of the big 3 build those, ruffles too many feathers on the bean counter and legal floors. No room in the parts bin. Honestly, I get it, there is no profit margin there. The pick of the litter helps the breeder to move the rest of the pups. Detroit understands that. Ultimately we have all benefitted from that and the HP wars. There are some truly amazing American made performance values available now GT350/500, ZL1, Corvette and Hellcat.

I will however disagree with overly compromised for the street. Compromised; Yes.

The car is stiff but given it's intended purpose, not overly so. I understood what I was buying. I believe that those who gripe about the ride quality, did not. I have had well engineered aftermarket coil overs on past rides that were considerably less compliant and forgiving on the street, especially with a rubber puck delete (I'll never do that job again).

 

[SCCA Racer #75]

VOODOO... lol... I declined my 'base car order'... I'll wait for a CFTP in the future if I choose to get one... just the dealer I was working with didn't get a golden ticket.

The only one making me feel salty towards the car.... is the fanboism that is so strong. You continue to DENY the facts...

Please name a 4 Seater than can beat the ZLE?

Car and Driver 'tested' braking and handling... and the ZLE braked shorter and pulled more G's... and that was against the CFTP car... which is a 2 seater... so then you'd might as well use a Z06 or ZR1.

Since in your own words 'why would you buy a car and just track it'? Then whey buy a Mustang and only have 2 seats? It's because some people like track focused cars.

The GT500 wins the quarter mile... And I guess you can say 'since they haven't magazine tested with track times'... we can't call it a win or a loss? Even though 'what was tested' it did lose?

How about,you try to answer this... can a 4 seat mustang beat a ZL1 1LE camaro?

As for the GT3RS, I didn't notice the question... the 3RS is an amazing car for only 520HP... but in the 'real world'... (most of us) are american's... and we crave HP... and we don't typically do 2 hour long races... if you're doing short laps... there is nothing like 650+, 750+ HP... however... if you want a bulletproof track weapon that will need almost zero maintenance the GT Porsche's are quite amazing. I've owned a couple... I still miss the big roar of an American V8 at the end of the day, but sometimes I purchase cars to be competitive in their respective race classes.

Dave

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