2020 GT500 CFTP Destroys C8 Corvette - Motortrend Comparison Review

[millhouse]

Didn’t they also get a $5000 price increase?

Wouldn't surprise me if they did.

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[newmoon]

Every forum has people that love to come up with conspiracies (*cough* Randy P sandbagging Fords on purpose *cough*), but most of them are just tongue and cheek about it because of the latest GT500 "comparison" article featuring an AWD unicorn Subaru.

And there is merit to the performance/cost argument considering a SS 1LE will beat a regular GT350, variants of the M3/4 and can run with a R on some tracks driver to driver. Marketing is one part of the equation, but Ford does seem to market their cars much more. When is the last time you've seen one of those terrible Chevy commercials strictly about the Camaro? They are always the stupid "real people" crap about their trucks, SUVs and Malibus. I agree though that there is more to the story. The poor visibility and cramped cabin are big one. Plus the Chevy shoppers have two choices for sports cars where Ford just has Mustang variants.

Why don't you sign up and tell them?

People are not refusing to buy the Camaro because of the lack of commercials. The 6th Gen has had its problems since the intro in 2016. Month after month of poor sales even with hefty discounts. The problem is not the performance or price it's the design.

 

[ThreeFiveO]

Yeah that front end is heinous. It seems like they redesign it every year. I can't believe the way they bungled the rear of the C8 either. The front of their HD trucks resemble an a/c unit too. Design team is definitely out to lunch at GM.

 

[Minn19]

I've never disagreed with the bolded. Best bang for your buck hands down.

And not that it would change your mind, but be aware the 2019 GT350 and 2020 GT350R received updates updates that improved their performance.

I'm fully aware, I'm guessing we disagree just how much those updates improved their performance. The SS 1LE was about 1.6 seconds behind the GT350R on crappy Eagle F1 Supercar Goodyears during MTs BDC test at Laguna Seca. Put Cup 2s on the SS 1lE and it is right there with the R or maybe a bit ahead in that test.

https://www.motortrend.com/cars/mclaren/570/2016/2016-motor-trend-best-drivers-car/

The only real performance addition to the 2019 regular GT350 was the addition of Cup 2s. Again put Cup 2s/SC3Rs on a SS 1LE and the regular GT350 is behind again. I read nothing that really showed me the 2020 R is going to be significantly better than a 16-19R. It seems they were trying to make its road manners better than actually adding noticeable performance gains.

Didn’t they also get a $5000 price increase?

Yes they did. There are 19 Rs sitting on lots right now and I foresee 2020 77k GT350Rs sitting on lots for a long time as well. Especially if one can snag a GT500 in the similar range even with ADM.

 

[Minn19]

Yeah that front end is heinous. It seems like they redesign it every year. I can't believe the way they bungled the rear of the C8 either. The front of their HD trucks resemble an a/c unit too. Design team is definitely out to lunch at GM.

The redesign did it no favors (or the GM trucks), but I really don't like the Mustangs new front end either.

 

[Minn19]

People are not refusing to buy the Camaro because of the lack of commercials. The 6th Gen has had its problems since the intro in 2016. Month after month of poor sales even with hefty discounts. The problem is not the performance or price it's the design.

Per usual, either here or C6G you only cherry pick one part of somebodies post.

 

[ThreeFiveO]

I don't like the 2018 either. 2016-2017 GT350 is one of the best looking cars out there.

 

[Minn19]

I don't like the 2018 either. 2016-2017 GT350 is one of the best looking cars out there.

Agreed, I love how my ZLE looks, but the GT350 will remain as one of my favorite looking cars of all time.

The pre face lift regular Camaros look a bit plain and the redesign made that problem worse IMO.

 

[Face76]

Are we there yet?

 

[roygriffin2020]

I'm fully aware, I'm guessing we disagree just how much those updates improved their performance. The SS 1LE was about 1.6 seconds behind the GT350R on crappy Eagle F1 Supercar Goodyears during MTs BDC test at Laguna Seca. Put Cup 2s on the SS 1lE and it is right there with the R or maybe a bit ahead in that test.

https://www.motortrend.com/cars/mclaren/570/2016/2016-motor-trend-best-drivers-car/

The only real performance addition to the 2019 regular GT350 was the addition of Cup 2s. Again put Cup 2s/SC3Rs on a SS 1LE and the regular GT350 is behind again. I read nothing that really showed me the 2020 R is going to be significantly better than a 16-19R. It seems they were trying to make its road manners better than actually adding noticeable performance gains.




Yes they did. There are 19 Rs sitting on lots right now and I foresee 2020 77k GT350Rs sitting on lots for a long time as well. Especially if one can snag a GT500 in the similar range even with ADM.

According to Autotrader, there are skyward of 1000+ GT350(R) for sale that nobody wants all the way back to the 2018 MY. They are giving them away at $10k discounts for 2018's. That means that have not been selling for 3 years.

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for...y=derivedpriceASC&numRecords=25&firstRecord=0

 

[millhouse]

I'm fully aware, I'm guessing we disagree just how much those updates improved their performance. The SS 1LE was about 1.6 seconds behind the GT350R on crappy Eagle F1 Supercar Goodyears during MTs BDC test at Laguna Seca. Put Cup 2s on the SS1lE and it is right there with the R or maybe a bit ahead in that test.

https://www.motortrend.com/cars/mclaren/570/2016/2016-motor-trend-best-drivers-car/

The only real performance addition to the 2019 regular GT350 was the addition of Cup 2s. Again put Cup 2s/SC3Rs on a SS 1LE and the regular GT350 is behind again. I read nothing that really showed me the 2020 R is going to be significantly better than 16-19R. It seems they were trying to make its road manners better than actually adding noticeable performance gains.




Yes they did. There are 19 Rs sitting on lots right now and I foresee 2020 77k GT350Rs sit-in non lots for a long time as well. Especially if one can snag a GT500 in the similar range even with ADM.

A couple things.

The 1LE most certainly does not have crappy tires. Those Eagle F1 supercar tires are a great tire. They may not be a SC2, but let's not pretend it's crappy. By most accounts, they are somewhere between a PS4 and a SC2.

As for what it could have ran with SC2, that's pure speculation. There is no data to show what the performance gain is going from those particular tires to a SC2.

In regards to the GT350, it also gained updated stiffer springs and revised dampening, revised brake calibration, revised spoiler, revised gurney flap etc.

Similarly, the GT350R undergoes it's own revisions for the 2020 model year based off of lessons learned.

Considering Billy Johnson was involved with these changes, I expect some fairly significant time was shaved off of both.

 

[millhouse]

Are we there yet?

Almost!

 

[roygriffin2020]

Agreed, I love how my ZLE looks, but the GT350 will remain as one of my favorite looking cars of all time.

The pre face lift regular Camaros look a bit plain and the redesign made that problem worse IMO.

I must say the 2017 ZL1 and up are the best looking and best chassis ever in a Camaro. I would not have bought a 5Gen.

I hated the "lift" of the regular 2019 Camaro.

 

[Minn19]

A couple things.

The 1LE most certainly does not have crappy tires. Those Eagle F1 supercar tires are a great tire. They may not be a SC2, but let's not pretend it's crappy. By most accounts, they are somewhere between a PS4 and a SC2.

As for what it could have ran with SC2, that's pure speculation. There is no data to show what the performance gain is going from those particular tires to a SC2.

In regards to the GT350, it also gained updated stiffer springs and revised dampening, revised brake calibration, revised spoiler, revised gurney flap etc.

Similarly, the GT350R undergoes it's own revisions for the 2020 model year based off of lessons learned.

Considering Billy Johnson was involved with these changes, I expect some fairly significant time was shaved off of both.

Now I know you’ve been out of the game for quite awhile. Most people would pick any other tire over the Eagle F1 for tracking. The GT350R was on an R comp tire and the SS 1LE wasn’t.

All of that won’t add up to anything near the tire change to an R comp tire. Again the SS 1LE currently comes with the PS4S I believe and now the regular 350 comes with Cup 2s. There is plenty of data showing the change between the two types of tire results in the biggest lap time differences all else being equal.

 

[MaskedRacerX]

Are we there yet?

I will pull this car over and give you and your brother something to cry about ... !

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