2020 GT500 CFTP Destroys C8 Corvette - Motortrend Comparison Review

[MaskedRacerX]

I must say the 2017 ZL1 and up are the best looking and best chassis ever in a Camaro.

I really do think the 6th Gen in ZL1 flavor is terrific looking, I wouldn't have considered one otherwise. I wound up liking the MY18+ GT a bit better in terms of looks (with aftermarket wheels/tires), especially the interior and exterior proportions, but no other factors, I would've gladly driven a ZL1 in terms of exterior design.

FMA, the ZL1 needs a red interior option, that with the dark[er] metallic gray would be awesome.

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[MaskedRacerX]

Now I know you’ve been out of the game for quite awhile.

Whitewalls are still cool, right?

 

[roygriffin2020]

I really do think the 6th Gen in ZL1 flavor is terrific looking, I wouldn't have considered one otherwise. I wound up liking the MY18+ GT a bit better in terms of looks (with aftermarket wheels/tires), especially the interior and exterior proportions, but no other factors, I would've gladly driven a ZL1 in terms of exterior design.

FMA, the ZL1 needs a red interior option, that with the dark[er] metallic gray would be awesome.

Comparing the "catfish" front grill of my GT350 and the bigmouth front grill of my ZL1, the GT350 gets the nod. Overall looks the GT350 gets the nod. Not by a whole lot, I think the interior of the ZL1 was a little more upscale and more tech. But since my 2016 GT350, the tech has grown in the GT350.

 

[millhouse]

Now I know you’ve been out of the game for quite awhile. Most people would pick any other tire over the Eagle F1 for tracking. The GT350R was on an R comp tire and the SS 1LE wasn’t.

All of that won’t add up to anything near the tire change to an R comp tire. Again the SS 1LE currently comes with the PS4S I believe and now the regular 350 comes with Cup 2s. There is plenty of data showing the change between the two types of tire results in the biggest lap time differences all else being equal.

No, the SS 1LE comes with goodyear supercars. And again, calling them crap is an insult. I've researched these tires and they are great for what they are. Perfectly capable at the track. Not as sticky as the SC2 tires, but better than the PS4S.

And again, there is no data showing the delta between those supercars and the sport cup 2. If you wan't to believe that the tire change would put the 1LE equal to the GT350R, that's your prerogative. Most people (including camaro folks) know this not to be true.

Edit:

Are you confusing the Goodyear Supercar F1 tires (crappy) with the Eagle F1 Supercar 3 tires that come on the SS 1le?

 

[Boss2013]

Every forum has people that love to come up with conspiracies (*cough* Randy P sandbagging Fords on purpose *cough*), but most of them are just tongue and cheek about it because of the latest GT500 "comparison" article featuring an AWD unicorn Subaru.

And there is merit to the performance/cost argument considering a SS 1LE will beat a regular GT350, variants of the M3/4 and can run with a R on some tracks driver to driver. Marketing is one part of the equation, but Ford does seem to market their cars much more. When is the last time you've seen one of those terrible Chevy commercials strictly about the Camaro? They are always the stupid "real people" crap about their trucks, SUVs and Malibus. I agree though that there is more to the story. The poor visibility and cramped cabin are big one. Plus the Chevy shoppers have two choices for sports cars where Ford just has Mustang variants.

Why don't you sign up and tell them?

Because I don’t own a Camaro and would be inevitably be labeled a troll by not marching in lockstep with any given topic related to the Mustang/Camaro rivalry. Besides, I would poke so many holes in blaq's diatribes/logic that he would blow a gasket or need medical attention. I don't want to have that on my hands.

 

[Boss2013]

I won't go any further as we won't change either of our minds, but just the fact you admit the bolded wins the value per performance dollar fight by quite a margin.

Edit: Especially for what those cars could be bought for in real world money during those years.

There is no doubt that Chevy wins the performance-for-dollar argument. But having the upper hand in that argument is not helping them sell cars. I think that’s what rubs so many Camaro fans the wrong way; despite a worse performance/dollar ratio, the demand for the Mustang, specifically the top tier versions, is apparent. They just can’t understand the logic.

 

[Concrete GT]

Yes they did. There are 19 Rs sitting on lots right now and I foresee 2020 77k GT350Rs sitting on lots for a long time as well. Especially if one can snag a GT500 in the similar range even with ADM.

I think you're correct on this and the only reason I think Ford kept the 350 and raised the price was to cash in on the manual only crowd.
It would take at least a 20-25K price difference in my mind between the 350 and 500 but then again I'm not some sort of "track purist". That said if Ford could figure out some way to get 580-590HP out of the car and keep it N/A it would close the gap....

 

[02gtnh]

Wouldn't surprise me if they did.

I think a base gt350 now is the same as a zl

Would someone please let the folks over at the C6 Camaro site know that Ford has no control over what vehicles a publisher chooses to compare for an article/blog. Ford does not reach out to Motor Trend or C&D to say, "we don't want to you to compare the GT500 to _______. It's not a conspiracy. Also, please let hotflash, hotlapse or whatever his screen name is, that saying the following...



...is simply not true. The public is very aware of the performance/cost related to the Camaro, they just don't have any interest in buying the car despite the numbers. I guess it's just easier to blame poor sales on the GM marketing team rather than the total package being offered.

Don’t know if it’s true or not, but have heard manufacturer’s can dictate what is done, or no car to test.

But it does seem odd that none of the cars have gone head to head in any mag. since they have been out. Why no SS 1le vs PP2 or gt350? No zl1 1le vs gt350r. I would even bet we won’t see any gt500 vs zl1. Hopefully we will tho. You don’t think mag would love to do these test knowing the competition between the two. They would sell plenty as there the two most popular pony cars.

 

[Boss2013]

I think a base gt350 now is the same as a zl


Don’t know if it’s true or not, but have heard manufacturer’s can dictate what is done, or no car to test.

But it does seem odd that none of the cars have gone head to head in any mag. since they have been out. Why no SS 1le vs PP2 or gt350? No zl1 1le vs gt350r. I would even bet we won’t see any gt500 vs zl1. Hopefully we will tho. You don’t think mag would love to do these test knowing the competition between the two. They would sell plenty as there the two most popular pony cars.

Yes, Ford can absolutely refuse to supply a test car, but Ford is not the only source to obtain one. Maybe it’s GM that won’t offer up a ZL1 1LE for such a comparison!

 

[02gtnh]

Yes, Ford can absolutely refuse to supply a test car, but Ford is not the only source to obtain one. Maybe it’s GM that won’t offer up a ZL1 1LE for such a comparison!

Could be. But they have nothing to loose as there cars are cheaper. If they win, it says for less there car is better. If they loose is, because it’s cheaper. So they really can’t loose.

 

[bluebeastsrt]

Could be. But they have nothing to loose as there cars are cheaper. If they win, it says for less there car is better. If they loose is, because it’s cheaper. So they really can’t loose.

I disagree. You can’t sell the ZL1 now without a steep discount. Bad press is just going to result in even less sales. GT500s are sold out even with ADM. I don’t think any amount of Motor Trend love would save the Camaro from its death spiral.

 

[Concrete GT]

I think the interior of the ZL1 was a little more upscale and more tech. But since my 2016 GT350, the tech has grown in the GT350.

To me the interior of the GT500 and even the 350 to a degree should have a little more separation from the standard S550...it really is the only thing that is slightly disappointing going into the 2020 model year....I just don't feel that much different getting in either than I did back in 2015 when I bought my 15GT.....

 

[newmoon]

Yes, Ford can absolutely refuse to supply a test car, but Ford is not the only source to obtain one. Maybe it’s GM that won’t offer up a ZL1 1LE for such a comparison!

The last H2H didn't work out well for either. The R vs ZL1. The ZL1 won on stats, but barely squeezed out a win in the track test. The R won the best car overall, but lost on stats.

Do a similar comparison now and it's GT500 vs ZL1 and winning on stats is likely out the window for the ZL1. Do we think the prior opinion that the Shelby is the better car would now be different based on the GT500 reviews thus far. The result will be the same which car would you rather have - Shelby, except now it's not only the better car it's the faster as well.

 

[02gtnh]

I disagree. You can’t sell the ZL1 now without a steep discount. Bad press is just going to result in even less sales. GT500s are sold out even with ADM. I don’t think any amount of Motor Trend love would save the Camaro from its death spiral.

Of course the gt500 is selling, it just came out and many have waited years to get one. Zl1 are a dime a dozen. GM doesn’t limit supplies, so loosing to the gt500 isn’t going to change much, neither will demand of the gt500. But we don’t need to get back into a sales debate as that’s a dead horse. All cars are way down on sales.

 

[Ed M]

We did it! Can this be closed now?

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