2020 GT500 CFTP Destroys C8 Corvette - Motortrend Comparison Review

[newmoon]

So....launch control is drag setup ? The launch control was set at a certain RPM. Also Ford went back to back to show the cars would not heat soak......should have actually read about it instead of hashing up some stuff from people who were not there or was as misinformed as you.

They are reeling. The 10.60s at 133 within days of release hit hard, then comes the Base beating the C8 full option package, engineers support on the track. No new announcements for the Camaro. Now they will need a mid engine lightweight 2 seat design Corvette Z06 or ZR1 to save the day and beat a Mustang.

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[Concrete GT]

But the C8 was still a preproduction car, so soon we will see if any more adjustments were done for production cars.

doing
I can agree with this but there is also the fact that the driver had much more wheel time behind the C8 so it kinda a wash since I would imagine finding the limit of a 4200# car takes a little longer than a balanced mid engine car weighing 600# less. BTW I don't hate the C8 because it will look pretty damned good doing what it's mostly designed to do....sell and make people feel special about their car.

 

[shogun32]

Well, they did release the Mustang Mach E so yes, Ford can be stupid.

that was the marketing team - they are stupid by definition or else they wouldn't be in marketing. /ducks

It defies reason to think the GT500 (either trim) wasn't set up to maximize performance for VIR by Ford whether it be by onsite technicians or before the car was shipped. Setting up the C8 with GM's preliminary one-size-fits-all track config is not cheating the least little bit. The C8 matched the CFTP on almost ever performance metric. How much of the 3.6 4.6 second lap time delta is due to tires, carbon wheels, or aero is not known because MT dind't bother to finish the test by controlling for OBVIOUS variables.

 

[02gtnh]

I can’t believe I’m saying this. It’s because one is a literal button push and the other is a mechanical alignment using special tools. How you don’t understand the difference is beyond me.

Your comparing the gt500 drag setup to the C8 track setup. Totally different. What do you think it takes to set up the gt500 for track. The handling package wasn’t put on for looks.

 

[millhouse]

Your comparing the gt500 drag setup to the C8 track setup. Totally different. What do you think it takes to set up the gt500 for track. The handling package wasn’t put on for looks.

What drag setup? You push a friggen button to put it in track mode. The C8 had an entire front and rear suspension alignment done.

It’s not coincidence that Motortrend didn’t mention Ford adjusting the suspension similar to the C8

 

[millhouse]

Hows is it any different then the Ford drag day. They had all cars set up for best drag setup, that’s why they didn’t allow the cars to be shut off as they would need to reset every time.

I’m quoting this again as you are comparing Ford having a car in track mode (button push) to the full realignment the C8 underwent.

And for those that don’t think it’s a big deal, it’s visually disturbing.

“Actually, the only thing that's visually noticeable—and they are definitely noticeable—are the wheels' knocked-kneed cambers angles.”

https://www.motortrend.com/cars/che...t-corvette-z51-c8-track-alignment-understeer/

 

[02gtnh]

What drag setup? You push a friggen button to put it in track mode. The C8 had an entire front and rear suspension alignment done.

It’s not coincidence that Motortrend didn’t mention Ford adjusting the suspension similar to the C8

So your saying that pushing a button adju

I’m quoting this again as you are comparing Ford having a car in track mode (button push) to the full realignment the C8 underwent.

And for those that don’t think it’s a big deal, it’s visually disturbing.

“Actually, the only thing that's visually noticeable—and they are definitely noticeable—are the wheels' knocked-kneed cambers angles.”

https://www.motortrend.com/cars/che...t-corvette-z51-c8-track-alignment-understeer/

like I said, these adjustments are to get the most out of the car. Ford has specs for both gt500 for street and track. The track specs are to get the most out of it. Since you can’t adjust the base gt500 camber, the handling package needs to be added in which the gt500 had. So to think Ford added the package for test and not have it adjusted to to track settings is naive.

 

[Concrete GT]

It defies reason to think the GT500 (either trim) wasn't set up to maximize performance for VIR by Ford whether it be by onsite technicians or before the car was shipped. Setting up the C8 with GM's preliminary one-size-fits-all track config is not cheating the least little bit. The C8 matched the CFTP on almost ever performance metric.

You too are confused. Where are you getting these numbers? We already have established the C8 got a 3 second advantage by virtue of the adjustments....and it's established the CFTP has been proven 5 seconds faster than the base with HP....Then throw in the at minimum 1.5 second advantage of 10x more seat time and the CFTP is about 10 seconds faster than the C8....Make sense?

 

[roygriffin2020]

It's all good discussion and food for thought.

you’re right. Good discussion of issues. But after this thread I think my brain will have to go on a diet. Lol

 

[ZRacerLE]

Anyone win yet?

 

[02gtnh]

Anyone win yet?

One good thing about the latest conversation, it’s been civil and good talking points.

 

[shogun32]

Where are you getting these numbers?

right from the article. Go all the way to the bottom and click 'show all'
https://www.motortrend.com/cars/che...s-ford-mustang-shelby-gt500-track-comparison/

The C8 matched or exceeded the CFTP on every metric except the lap time (+4.66 seconds). It handily surpassed the GT500 again except for the lap time (+1.32 sec). Since the C8 and GT500 were on equal tires and aero effect is probably same, we could reasonably conclude torque/hp was worth 1.3 seconds in the Mustang's favor.

Now the GT500 vs CFTP was +3.38 seconds on the lap time. So the CFTP's Cup2R, carbon wheels and aero effects was the difference. Had the C8 been shod with Cup2R and maybe carbon wheels, it probably would have clawed back around 2.5 maybe as much as 3 seconds off it's 4.66 second deficit resulting in a "corrected" disadvantage of 2.2-1.7 seconds per lap. Considering it has much smaller brakes and a LOT less power out of the motor, that's hardly surprising. The weight advantage is only worth ~80HP in any event and is still 180 shy. Not to mention comparing max HP is not useful when you're not spending much time at full throttle in the first place.

Put the C8/Z51 and the GT500 on a NASCAR oval and the lap times differences will be dramatic and the only time "destroys" would be appropriate.

Then throw in the at minimum 1.5 second advantage of 10x more seat time

Good grief where did you come up with that nonsense? How do you know what driver has what for seat time in the respective cars? Do you know when the best laps were recorded during the day and by which driver? Do you know the angle of the sun, the temp of the tarmac in 12 different corners, the hydration level of the driver(s) on the record laps, the numbers of mistakes they made on the lap and where they made them, whether they dropped a wheel or hit a curb a little too high?

There are error bars on everything especially something like this where the drivers are still learning the cars, the weather wasn't exactly hot, and even the best drivers are not inch perfect every single corner and every single lap. Both are really frakin' great cars. Frankly it's a toss up between them.

If it makes you feel better about your allegiance to Ford to declare that the CFTP "destroyed" the C8 while blithely ignoring all of the rather significant, uncontrolled variables, be my guest. I just hope you don't work in any scientific discipline.

 

[roygriffin2020]

I’m quoting this again as you are comparing Ford having a car in track mode (button push) to the full realignment the C8 underwent.

And for those that don’t think it’s a big deal, it’s visually disturbing.

“Actually, the only thing that's visually noticeable—and they are definitely noticeable—are the wheels' knocked-kneed cambers angles.”

https://www.motortrend.com/cars/che...t-corvette-z51-c8-track-alignment-understeer/

Yes you are right, I did think I saw the C8 looking similar to this.

 

[NotagainV2]

Same price range. Where are you so butt hurt??

Same price range as in compare the GT500 to say ummm NOT the base C8 and more like a Z06 C8.

Guess that went over your head. Apparently cost is hard to grasp in this thread. As are numbers in nearly every other catagory for comparisons sake aswell......

LOL!! TDS is thiick in here.

 

[FastCarFanBoy]

So your saying that pushing a button adju

like I said, these adjustments are to get the most out of the car. Ford has specs for both gt500 for street and track. The track specs are to get the most out of it. Since you can’t adjust the base gt500 camber, the handling package needs to be added in which the gt500 had. So to think Ford added the package for test and not have it adjusted to to track settings is naive.

There is nothing in the "handling package" that allows camber adjustment. The HP only includes aero and the oil seperator. You only get adjustable mounts with the CFTP.

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