Let's talk about the C8 vs the GT500

[TDC]

I’ve been a die hard fan of the GT350 with many trips to the track; the car is soo much fun. I’ve had the occasional glance at heavily discounted new C7 Grand Sports and used Cayman S’s/GTS’s and I have to say this new C8 at that price point has me planning a switch in 2-years (finish of the lease term in my Challenger Scat Pack Widebody). The C8 May be pushing down the price of all used sports cars in the 45k+ range if they can keep up with demand.

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[Stuntman]

GT500 won't be anywhere remotely close to being a match on a track. Completely different car and purpose- C8 is purpose built, mid-engined, ligthweight true sportscar. I believe GT500 will still find its customers, but hopefully it will be a lesson for dealers trying to charge insane ADMs...

3,600lbs is 'light weight' these days? Maybe compared to a 4,000lb+ GT500.

Keep in mind that the $60K car is your Hertz rental car Corvette. The Z51 performance package ($70-80K car) is going to be better than the C7 Z51, which was ballpark GT350 performance. The new GT350 with the cup2 tires is a lot faster. So the C8 Z51 will still be in the ballpark of the current GT350 & GT350R.

The GT500 is suppose to be faster than the GT350R on track so it will probably take Z06/ZR1 package C8's to compete with a GT500.

 

[cosmo]

3,600lbs is 'light weight' these days? Maybe compared to a 4,000lb+ GT500.

Keep in mind that the $60K car is your Hertz rental car Corvette. The Z51 performance package ($70-80K car) is going to be better than the C7 Z51, which was ballpark GT350 performance. The new GT350 with the cup2 tires is a lot faster. So the C8 Z51 will still be in the ballpark of the current GT350 & GT350R.

The GT500 is suppose to be faster than the GT350R on track so it will probably take Z06/ZR1 package C8's to compete with a GT500.

The current Z51 is a $5k option with more content than described for the C8 Z51. Not $10-$20k as you describe.

The C7 Z51 posted over 1s faster than a GT350 in a caranddriver direct test. The Grand Sport C7 was faster than the GT350R on Laguna Seca, and drastically faster on VIR. The C8 is lighter than any GT350 so far, and will have a faster transmission with a better power to weight ratio. That doesn't point to in any way, shape, or form they will be similar with equal drivers.

The GT500 will be very fast on the track though, and I believe will be faster than the C8 Z51 on a track like Laguna. I wouldn't bet on it like at VIR though.

 

[Stuntman]

The current Z51 is a $5k option with more content than described for the C8 Z51. Not $10-$20k as you describe.

The C7 Z51 posted over 1s faster than a GT350 in a caranddriver direct test. The Grand Sport C7 was faster than the GT350R on Laguna Seca, and drastically faster on VIR. The C8 is lighter than any GT350 so far, and will have a faster transmission with a better power to weight ratio. That doesn't point to in any way, shape, or form they will be similar with equal drivers.

The GT500 will be very fast on the track though, and I believe will be faster than the C8 Z51 on a track like Laguna. I wouldn't bet on it like at VIR though.

I'd put money that the 'fast' Z51 with the high spoiler will be a $70K car. Heck, GM may package the Z51 with the track seats that i'm sure are a few grand. I would be surprised if you can build a C8 with the base seats and all of the suspension and handling goodies.

The Z51 package is nothing without the extra $1,800 magneride. So turn that $5K into at least $6,800. Then the $1K destination/delivery charge puts you at almost $8K. Pretty close to my $70K guess.

The Z51 was 1.3 seconds faster than the old GT350. The new GT350 has cup2 tires, a new spoiler, better suspension, and i'm sure is easily 1.3 seconds faster than the old car. The GT350 has much wider and stickier tires than the C8. The Grand Sport is basically a LT1 powered Z06. I would doubt the highest spec 'base' C8 Z51 would even be that fast without a Grand Sport or Z06 package.

How do you figure the 500 would be faster at Laguna but not VIR?

 

[cosmo]

I'd put money that the 'fast' Z51 with the high spoiler will be a $70K car. Heck, GM may package the Z51 with the track seats that i'm sure are a few grand. I would be surprised if you can build a C8 with the base seats and all of the suspension and handling goodies.

The Z51 package is nothing without the extra $1,800 magneride. So turn that $5K into at least $6,800. Then the $1K destination/delivery charge puts you at almost $8K. Pretty close to my $70K guess.

The Z51 was 1.3 seconds faster than the old GT350. The new GT350 has cup2 tires, a new spoiler, better suspension, and i'm sure is easily 1.3 seconds faster than the old car. The GT350 has much wider and stickier tires than the C8. The Grand Sport is basically a LT1 powered Z06. I would doubt the highest spec 'base' C8 Z51 would even be that fast without a Grand Sport or Z06 package.

How do you figure the 500 would be faster at Laguna but not VIR?

Rounding from $68,000 to $70,000 is fine, but then upping it to $80,000 is facetious and misleading.

And regardless, even if it is $70,000, that's $3.5k cheaper than a base model GT500. Damn near $23k cheaper than a GT500 equipped for track.

The new GT350 did get upgraded. It however isn't as fast as a GT350R as Billy Johnson has said, so it isn't faster than a Grand Sport Z07. Do we for sure know if the C8 Z51 is faster than a Grand Sport? Not yet. But I know a mid (EDIT: rear) engine Porsche Carrera on similar tires to the C8 Z51 gave the Grand Sport Z07 a run for it's money, and the C8 on all accounts should be quicker than the Porsche.

My understanding is that Laguna Seca favors higher HP vehicles due to the straights and vertical climbs.

 

[cosmic charlie]

I honestly have no idea how they think they're going to be able to produce a mid-engined Corvette for $60k. I mean, the Fiat 4C is a 4-cylinder mid-engine car, and it starts at $67k. Granted, the 4C has a carbon fiber passenger tub, which definitely adds cost, but it's 25% smaller than the Corvette, has fewer cylinders, and is certainly not built for the all-out speed that the Corvette is built for.

Maybe they're ok with losing money on the base Corvette sales (they sell, what, 3,000 a year?) to make it up on the Z06/Z07, ZR1, etc.

JR

They also have to lug the 4C all the way from Modena.

 

[Eritas]

Rounding from $68,000 to $70,000 is fine, but then upping it to $80,000 is facetious and misleading.

And regardless, even if it is $70,000, that's $3.5k cheaper than a base model GT500. Damn near $23k cheaper than a GT500 equipped for track.

The new GT350 did get upgraded. It however isn't as fast as a GT350R as Billy Johnson has said, so it isn't faster than a Grand Sport Z07. Do we for sure know if the C8 Z51 is faster than a Grand Sport? Not yet. But I know a mid engine Porsche Carrera on similar tires to the C8 Z51 gave the Grand Sport Z07 a run for it's money, and the C8 on all accounts should be quicker than the Porsche.

My understanding is that Laguna Seca favors higher HP vehicles due to the straights and vertical climbs.

Dude, I built a C7 Z51 on the chevy website to $90K.

What mid-engine Carrera? What test was this?

 

[cosmo]

Dude, I built a C7 Z51 on the chevy website to $90K.

What mid-engine Carrera? What test was this?

Derp, my mistake. Rear-Engine. I can't believe I said mid...

Max-building is different from just building the car to the needed specs for performance. Max-building a GT500 is brutal with the painted stripes. A 1LT, Z51 Magnaride C7 with destination is $63,790 MSRP. A base GT500 with delivery and gas guzzler is $73,995. The track pack GT500 is $92,495.

The GT500 and C8 are both incredible options, no doubt. Personally, and others here and elsewhere it seems, the C8 Z51 offers a better value and more interesting package. But this could be like the launch Z06 where it has issues, we'll have to wait and see.

 

[rum_punch_ruby]

The price astounded me at only $60k

That car at that price for what I'd use it for, "fun" car on the street during warmer months, has me considering a jump. And even if $60k was too much a lightly used C7 that will for sure start hitting the market for $40k is also very appealing.

 

[Stuntman]

Rounding from $68,000 to $70,000 is fine, but then upping it to $80,000 is facetious and misleading.

And regardless, even if it is $70,000, that's $3.5k cheaper than a base model GT500. Damn near $23k cheaper than a GT500 equipped for track.

The new GT350 did get upgraded. It however isn't as fast as a GT350R as Billy Johnson has said, so it isn't faster than a Grand Sport Z07. Do we for sure know if the C8 Z51 is faster than a Grand Sport? Not yet. But I know a mid (EDIT: rear) engine Porsche Carrera on similar tires to the C8 Z51 gave the Grand Sport Z07 a run for it's money, and the C8 on all accounts should be quicker than the Porsche.

My understanding is that Laguna Seca favors higher HP vehicles due to the straights and vertical climbs.

Most C7 3LTs are $80K cars that dealers dump for $70-75K. I doubt its faster than a Grand Sport. That's a Z06 with an LT1. I don't care much for Randy's lap times. He went faster in a ZL1* that's heavier, smaller, less sticky tires, less downforce, worse weight distribution around that track than the GT350R that has more downforce, better weight distribution, lighter, wider tires, and stickier tires. He & MT aren't credible to me.

Max-building is different from just building the car to the needed specs for performance. Max-building a GT500 is brutal with the painted stripes.

Agreed.

A 1LT, Z51 Magnaride C7 with destination is $63,790 MSRP. A base GT500 with delivery and gas guzzler is $73,995. The track pack GT500 is $92,495.

The GT500 and C8 are both incredible options, no doubt. Personally, and others here and elsewhere it seems, the C8 Z51 offers a better value and more interesting package. But this could be like the launch Z06 where it has issues, we'll have to wait and see.

Fair enough. Actually I think I was wrong. $5K for the Z51 package includes destination. So the package is $4K + 1,795 for magneride = $5,795.

It's still pretty impressive how a base C7 starts at $57K and the base C8 starts sub $60K, but I'd guess that means $59,995. So You're looking at a minimum of $65,795 for a Z51 and likely more, especially if GM requires the expensive track seats with the Z51 package. The tall wing is likely at least another $1-2K and that gives it closer to GT500 carbon levels of downforce. We have no idea how fast a regular $74K GT500 is going to be but I bet they are pretty close in lap time for similar money. One does it with 760hp and big tires, the other is more refined with a traditional sportscar layout that's hundreds of pounds lighter and 495hp.

At least we can probably agree that Japanese cars are sucking.

 

[kz]

3,600lbs is 'light weight' these days? Maybe compared to a 4,000lb+ GT500.

Keep in mind that the $60K car is your Hertz rental car Corvette. The Z51 performance package ($70-80K car) is going to be better than the C7 Z51, which was ballpark GT350 performance. The new GT350 with the cup2 tires is a lot faster. So the C8 Z51 will still be in the ballpark of the current GT350 & GT350R.

I admit I don't follow magazine tests too much, but where is "much faster" coming from since I don't think anyone is questioning (except fanboys but let's skip them) GT350 (as much as I like it) being slower than 1 LE ?

Anyway - that's off topic. IMO C8 is going to be much faster than GT350 and quite a bit faster than GT500.

 

[Stuntman]

I admit I don't follow magazine tests too much, but where is "much faster" coming from since I don't think anyone is questioning (except fanboys but let's skip them) GT350 (as much as I like it) being slower than 1 LE ?

Anyway - that's off topic. IMO C8 is going to be much faster than GT350 and quite a bit faster than GT500.

None of us know if that's true or false. The GT350R was a lot faster than the GT350, which was as fast as a C7 Z51. The new GT350 is close to the GT350R. The GT500 track is faster than the GT350R. I thought I remember watching a video where a Ford exec said how the base GT500 stacked up against the GT350/R, but I can't find it.

I'm going to guess the fastest C8 Z51 will be somewhere around the new GT350 and GT350R times.

 

[BlackandBlue]

A few questions.

1. What will second year pricing be? First year loss leader?
2. What teething issues will the car have. In January the car had some major problems.
3. How can people even compare a base mid engine super car to a porky 6th year HP monster?

I personally think this car will eat the GT500 lunch in every way. Track, 1/4, Street. This car is a custom built race car. It has no other purpose.

 

[shogun32]

The GT500 will be very fast on the track though, and I believe will be faster than the C8 Z51 on a track like Laguna. I wouldn't bet on it like at VIR though.

Hmm I would have flipped the track advantage the other way. VIR has lots of semi-straights that will allow the GT500 to make up time lost in corners, transitions, and spinning it's wheels. 400-600lbs is pretty major disadvantage, but maybe Ford chassis engineering finally got around to spending the time to improve on their earlier work?

The instrumented testing is sure going to be fun to watch. If GM can execute on quality control and reliability they've tilted the balance solidly their way. Maybe Ford will find some religion and get out of the 80's with their choice of chassis materials.

 

[9secondko]

The C8 is starting CHEAP. You gotta wonder why. Either they cut corners, there are quality issues, or GM is hurting and trying to do something to shake things up. either way, great thing for however many buyers there will be, but terrible for GM.

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