2019 GT350 Upgrades: Tech, Aerodynamics and Other GT500 Track Improvements

[fpa1974]

See my earlier post with Billy Johnson's comments about the tires.

The new GT350 PSC2 tires are not equivalent to the GT350R PSC2 tires. So the GT350R should still be the king of the track, based on the rubber under the car, downforce and weight savings.

ETA: on top of the R being very limited in production. There will probably end up being less than 2500 of them ever made, I would think.

I am not disagreeing, but as a potential customer for one I am expecting some of these improvements (inside and outside) to be applied to the R in some shape or form.

Sponsored

 

[fpa1974]

The GT350R is still faster than the 19 non-R GT350 around the track...but the because R value prop isn't as good anymore now that the gap has been narrowed. Unless you're keeping your car bone stock I don't see the value of having an R unless you're a collector. Otherwise save the coin and buy the non-R.

That is what I was thinking especially since I am not collecting my cars. I still hope there is a good reason to get an R outside of collectability (this is why I am hoping they apply some incremental improvements to the R as well).

 

[mkonrad]

I suppose it's probably true the R picks up few if any changes. Still depressing though.

Tires are different, as stated. Revisions to sway bar and spring rates don't mean the R has to take them, and would be unlikely to. Spoiler would be different too. The exciting parts about re-calibration of shocks wouldn't be relevant to the R, even if it also has a re-calibration too. ABS recalibration, who knows? Can we really claim a firmware strategy is much of a change? Stripe colors won't be relevant to an R, even if they have a paint option too.

Maybe it does get an interior upgrade. But that's buried deep in the marketing stuff. Still fits within "carries over unchanged."

I imagine this won't do much to build excitement for the GT350 to anyone but an owner, but if you're trying to sell the GT500, who needs to?

 

[Spart]

Unless you're keeping your car bone stock, I don't see the value of having an R unless you're a collector. Otherwise save the coin and buy the non-R.

I say that's true now, buy the GT350 and get R-spec wheels and put on whatever rubber you want, and you're 95% of the way there. And BONUS you get to keep your A/C and not pay crazy ADM.

 

[likeaboss]

I say that's true now, buy the GT350 and get R-spec wheels and put on whatever rubber you want, and you're 95% of the way there. And BONUS you get to keep your A/C and not pay crazy ADM.

What drives me nuts is all the GT350R owners that take off the wheels and tires and go with something else. It's like the major difference in performance over the non-R.

 

[honeybadger]

What drives me nuts is all the GT350R owners that take off the wheels and tires and go with something else. It's like the major difference in performance over the non-R.

Honestly, I'd blame Ford for that vs. the owners. The R is a bit a miss to me. They marketed it as their ultimate track-focused machine, but then put all these ultra expensive bits on it that cost a fortune to replace when they break (which they will on track given time).

It's an absolutely badass vehicle and serious cool CF bits, but it sure does seem like it was built more collectability than its "marketed" use.

 

[MustangGT350]

The GT350R is still faster than the 19 non-R GT350 around the track...but the "because R" value prop isn't as good anymore now that the gap has been narrowed. Unless you're keeping your car bone stock, I don't see the value of having an R unless you're a collector. Otherwise save the coin and buy the non-R.

The R will always be "the car" that the media (and the world) raved about and it's a timeless classic if you ask me. How quickly we forget about the incredible, ground breaking Carbon Fiber wheels that were the first of it's type on a non-$300K+ Lambo or exotic.

There's more to the R than pure numbers, and the numbers aren't that bad and I'll bet still better than the non-R model coming out 4 years later.

I'm excited for the changes and I expect all of the performance #'s to surpass my car eventually, but since I'm not pushing what I have to the limits, I am beyond good with "the old R"!

 

[btown93]

Honestly, I'd blame Ford for that vs. the owners. The R is a bit a miss to me. They marketed it as their ultimate track-focused machine, but then put all these ultra expensive bits on it that cost a fortune to replace when they break (which they will on track given time).

It's an absolutely badass vehicle and serious cool CF bits, but it sure does seem like it was built more collectability than its "marketed" use.

Perhaps that was a consideration..collectors have $$.....I can't think of any ford product as of late that has brought such a windfall to dealers in the form of ADM :ford:

 

[BillyJRacing]

ABS recalibration, who knows? Can we really claim a firmware strategy is much of a change?

Absolutely. And it's SIGNIFICANT.

It probably won't do anything for drag racing, or much on the street, but on track, it's a major change that makes the car turn faster lap times, better to drive, more in control, and allows the car to trail-brake and rotate much better.

Everyone seems to miss the benefit, importance, and significance of carbon wheels. They're not only lighter for less unsprung weight, but rotational inertia and gyroscopic effect greatly improves steering feel, and the increased stiffness, has less camber compliance (they don't deflect as much in a corner, nor require as much static camber). They're worth a lot of time.

 

[Hack]

Honestly, I'd blame Ford for that vs. the owners. The R is a bit a miss to me. They marketed it as their ultimate track-focused machine, but then put all these ultra expensive bits on it that cost a fortune to replace when they break (which they will on track given time).

It's an absolutely badass vehicle and serious cool CF bits, but it sure does seem like it was built more collectability than its "marketed" use.

I think the CF wheels are genius and a much better idea than putting carbon brakes on the car.

The same with the rear wing that is a work of art in my opinion.

I don't get what you are saying about wear. It's a car, if you use it there will be wear. I would be very surprised if the CF rims are going to wear out faster than aluminum parts. Wheels aren't really a wear item. Yes they can get scratches, etc. over time, but they aren't like brakes, tires or air filters.

 

[oldbmwfan]

Honestly, I'd blame Ford for that vs. the owners. The R is a bit a miss to me. They marketed it as their ultimate track-focused machine, but then put all these ultra expensive bits on it that cost a fortune to replace when they break (which they will on track given time).

It's an absolutely badass vehicle and serious cool CF bits, but it sure does seem like it was built more collectability than its "marketed" use.

I don't consider it a miss, but I'm biased as an R owner. The main practicality issue is that people who want to drive their cars anywhere but a track probably don't want to do it on PSC2s all the time. I caved after 1.5 years and bought a set of wheels to put PSS on just so I could drive the car without worrying about the sudden thunderstorms we get so often in the midwestern summer (after been stranded during downpours twice). Still use the CF wheels on track, though, for all the reasons noted above.

We always knew the R in stock form would be compromised for street use. It shouldn't come as a disappointment when that turns out to be true. I knew what I was buying, and I am still glad to have it.

It is true, however, that if I intended to track the car a lot (as you do), the base car would be better from a value preservation perspective. Heavy track use is hard on a car. And there was never any doubt that the aftermarket would close the gap from non-R to R.

So the R becomes the right thing to buy for people who want the "spcial sauce" sensation (it does feel more different to a stock base car than one would expect), the exclusivity/ long-term value, and who will occasionally enjoy it on a track, and who don't need it to be everyday transportation. It's a narrow segment, for sure.

I've had so much fun in my R that I've considered picking up a non-R to build out as a track car, replacing my race car. But my E36 running costs are SO cheap that I can't really justify it, and the fun factor is not far off.

 

[yomamma219]

I just want that damn spoiler. Its making me question my desire for the 18PP1 spoiler now.

 

[Epiphany]

I am not sure I buy the part that the R carries over completely unchanged. It if that is true I am not sure what Ford is thinking here.

It would seem extremely odd for the R model to not receive any changes (interior at the least). I have zero confidence in the media reporting so far in that it would seem that nobody pried for clarification on the very specifics we are currently discussing. There are ways to "safely" get answers that would give everyone a clearer vision on the product lineup to come.

I think it would be reasonable to infer that the other changes the GT350 is tracking in 2019 would be applied to the R, and possibly even improved on (e.g. R specific shock calibration).

I hope you are wrong by that I mean that now I am expecting a retune of the suspension, steering and...

If they haven't changed the tire at all I could see them sticking with what they have. We need more detail!

The GT350R is still faster than the 19 non-R GT350 around the track...but the "because R" value prop isn't as good anymore now that the gap has been narrowed. Unless you're keeping your car bone stock, I don't see the value of having an R unless you're a collector. Otherwise save the coin and buy the non-R.

It would have seemed logical for Ford to maintain the advantage built-in to the R model over the regular GT350. Then again, if they made the R too good () it might make things difficult for the upcoming GT500.:shrug:

 

[honeybadger]

Perhaps that was a consideration..collectors have $$.....I can't think of any ford product as of late that has brought such a windfall to dealers in the form of ADM :ford:

That would be my guess. Brilliant from a marketing standpoint.

I think the CF wheels are genius and a much better idea than putting carbon brakes on the car.

The same with the rear wing that is a work of art in my opinion.

I don't get what you are saying about wear. It's a car, if you use it there will be wear. I would be very surprised if the CF rims are going to wear out faster than aluminum parts. Wheels aren't really a wear item. Yes they can get scratches, etc. over time, but they aren't like brakes, tires or air filters.

The wheels and wing are badass. But I do disagree about wheels being wear items. Wheels and front splitter are absolutely wear items for track use. Wheels get bent, cracked, etc. when you run them on track long enough. The CF wheels are amazing, but at ~$2,500 a piece, you can buy (3) fully forged aluminum wheels that are within 2lbs. And don't even get me started on the splitter. $900-1,500 is just stupid for a piece of plastic.

I don't consider it a miss, but I'm biased as an R owner. The main practicality issue is that people who want to drive their cars anywhere but a track probably don't want to do it on PSC2s all the time. I caved after 1.5 years and bought a set of wheels to put PSS on just so I could drive the car without worrying about the sudden thunderstorms we get so often in the midwestern summer (after been stranded during downpours twice). Still use the CF wheels on track, though, for all the reasons noted above.

We always knew the R in stock form would be compromised for street use. It shouldn't come as a disappointment when that turns out to be true. I knew what I was buying, and I am still glad to have it.

It is true, however, that if I intended to track the car a lot (as you do), the base car would be better from a value preservation perspective. Heavy track use is hard on a car. And there was never any doubt that the aftermarket would close the gap from non-R to R.

So the R becomes the right thing to buy for people who want the "spcial sauce" sensation (it does feel more different to a stock base car than one would expect), the exclusivity/ long-term value, and who will occasionally enjoy it on a track, and who don't need it to be everyday transportation. It's a narrow segment, for sure.

I've had so much fun in my R that I've considered picking up a non-R to build out as a track car, replacing my race car. But my E36 running costs are SO cheap that I can't really justify it, and the fun factor is not far off.

I knew my comment would attract a few R owners No hate brother. I see where you're coming from and I get it. I'm just a stubborn principles guy. Just not a fan of the track-focused mustang having stupidly expensive bits that cost a lot to replace. I'd also even argue that the R is TOO comfortable on the street (even in stock form) - would love to have seen it with solid bushings in the rear end, even stiffer ride, etc. I'm the weirdo that thinks the R should only have been sold as the base model - the purist car!

On a side note, I am super close to doing the same thing with my car in a couple years. Like you, only reservation is cost of consumables. BUT....voodoo-powered race car. Decisions, decisions...

 

[fpa1974]

I knew my comment would attract a few R owners No hate brother. I see where you're coming from and I get it. I'm just a stubborn principles guy. Just not a fan of the track-focused mustang having stupidly expensive bits that cost a lot to replace. I'd also even argue that the R is TOO comfortable on the street (even in stock form) - would love to have seen it with solid bushings in the rear end, even stiffer ride, etc. I'm the weirdo that thinks the R should only have been sold as the base model - the purist car!

If they put solid bushings on the R, I do not care if they cary over any other improvements of the base car. I am getting one

Sponsored