Traction issues mid corner

[EFI]

After my first track day with a completely stock car, I've added a bunch of stuff (including PSS tires) to help with traction and turning. However I still find myself struggling for traction especially when turning mid corner.

For example, see picture below. I'm coming into turn 3, downshifting then where the red star is I start accelerating. I'm slowly adding throttle but I cannot for the life of me seem to be able to get more than 50% until I'm at the green star. If I do the rear end starts coming loose. There is a bit of an uphill and bank to the right during this whole turn.

So being a newb I'm not sure if this is purely how high powered cars are on a tight course (and I just have to manage it), of if it's something I can be helping with the car? Any help with tips or possible mods to help would be appreciated.

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[OKC S550]

Are your tires squared or staggered sizes?

 

[EFI]

Sorry should have specified, running 275 up front and 305 in the rear. Swaybar settings are middle in the front and softest in the rear.

 

[BmacIL]

After my first track day with a completely stock car, I've added a bunch of stuff (including PSS tires) to help with traction and turning. However I still find myself struggling for traction especially when turning mid corner.

For example, see picture below. I'm coming into turn 3, downshifting then where the red star is I start accelerating. I'm slowly adding throttle but I cannot for the life of me seem to be able to get more than 50% until I'm at the green star. If I do the rear end starts coming loose. There is a bit of an uphill and bank to the right during this whole turn.

So being a newb I'm not sure if this is purely how high powered cars are on a tight course (and I just have to manage it), of if it's something I can be helping with the car? Any help with tips or possible mods to help would be appreciated.

50% is not bad for that type of corner, but you should be able to put down more considering it's increasing radius, depending on the overall size of the corner. What are your alignment settings?

A BIG improvement for rear confidence and grip for me was the BMR CB005 cradle lockout. The subframe doesn't shift around during power application and the rear feels more consistent and planted.

Do you have 305's on stock PP rear wheels?

 

[M3Convert]

Which corner at which track? Is it the uphill at NHMS where you leave the oval and headed to the bowl? I am guessing from the picture posted

 

[EFI]

What are your alignment settings?

A BIG improvement for rear confidence and grip for me was the BMR CB005 cradle lockout. The subframe doesn't shift around during power application and the rear feels more consistent and planted.

Do you have 305's on stock PP rear wheels?

Alignment settings are stock, the mods that I have (in my sig) don't think affected my alignment.

I do have the BMR CB005 installed already.

The 305s are on 19x11 GT350 replicas.

Which corner at which track? Is it the uphill at NHMS where you leave the oval and headed to the bowl? I am guessing from the picture posted

Yeah it's corners 3 and 4 at NHMS, the very slow and tight uphill sweeper to the right.

 

[BmacIL]

Alignment settings are stock, the mods that I have (in my sig) don't think affected my alignment.

I do have the BMR CB005 installed already.

The 305s are on 19x11 GT350 replicas.



Yeah it's corners 3 and 4 at NHMS, the very slow and tight uphill sweeper to the right.

CB005 definitely could've effected alignment somewhat. I would get a check if you can. Rear camber you want at around -1.25 to -1.5, and toe about 0.10 deg per side, for 0.20 deg total.

Looking at the track, and how tight that corner is, 50% seems about right, though you should be able to get on it a little more in the transition between the oval and road course loops (that little short chute).

 

[Optimum Performance]

Too much entry speed? If you try overslowing so the chassis has a chance to set you may be able to get the car pointed straighter on exit. Are you using all the track and using a later turn in? If you are carrying too much speed in you may be early apexing the turn which will kill any chance of a fast exit.

We also don't know what you did to your chassis balance so you could be fighting that. The stock PP is very neutral with a square set-up and camber up front. Not really sure how well your car turns in with your set up.

You want -2ish up front otherwise you just plow through the corner, the chassis never sets so power down will always be sketchy. A 285 would help but the MPSS 275 I believe runs fairly wide. What size front wheel are you running?

 

[Optimum Performance]

Also what speed in? What gear? You may want to roll through in say 4th vs 3rd if the speed through there is high enough. You'll save 2 shifts and settle the power down situation picking up time. Make it a momentum corner. I never ran that track so not familiar with it. Do you have any video?

 

[EFI]

Too much entry speed? If you try overslowing so the chassis has a chance to set you may be able to get the car pointed straighter on exit. Are you using all the track and using a later turn in? If you are carrying too much speed in you may be early apexing the turn which will kill any chance of a fast exit.

We also don't know what you did to your chassis balance so you could be fighting that. The stock PP is very neutral with a square set-up and camber up front. Not really sure how well your car turns in with your set up.

You want -2ish up front otherwise you just plow through the corner, the chassis never sets so power down will always be sketchy. A 285 would help but the MPSS 275 I believe runs fairly wide. What size front wheel are you running?

Also what speed in? What gear? You may want to roll through in say 4th vs 3rd if the speed through there is high enough. You'll save 2 shifts and settle the power down situation picking up time. Make it a momentum corner. I never ran that track so not familiar with it. Do you have any video?

I feel like I am coming in way too slow IMO, downshifting from 4th to 3rd and then taking the corner at about 30mph or so. 3rd is already the wrong gear for that turn, so 4th would be terrible. Trying the whole "slow in - fast out" idea, but even on the short straight part that goes over the NASCAR track I have trouble giving it too much throttle.

The 275s I have are on 10" wheels.

 

[M3Convert]

Alignment settings are stock, the mods that I have (in my sig) don't think affected my alignment.

I do have the BMR CB005 installed already.

The 305s are on 19x11 GT350 replicas.



Yeah it's corners 3 and 4 at NHMS, the very slow and tight uphill sweeper to the right.

That's a pure technique corner. Your rear will always be light, and your front correspondingly heavy, not matter what the mods are. NHMS is a great course to learn to HPDE...I also hate it as it has cost me close to 8K in repairs due to my bad driving and dumb c**ts with bad judgment. I don't go there any more!

The corner is different for light cars and heavy cars and they have different lines. It is the toughest corner on the course, the second is the downhill back to the oval as you understeer, again due to the physics of driving downhill. The third is the corner getting onto the front straight, getting the bounce off the kerbing just right, but not hitting the muddy hole and scraping your chassis.

It is all about understanding dynamics and patience. You can mod the H@ll out of your car, but if you don't figure out the physics, you will always struggle there, just on a different line. For a heavy car like a Mustang, you have to get as far left as possible and hit a "hole" at the bottom of the hill by the kerb which kicks the car right and then slowly applying power - patience! Believe it or not, if you do it right, you use the same steering input all the way from the bottom of the hill to the entrance of the bowl, using throttle and track incline/decline to create your line. Likewise, you use the same steering input to go through the bowl to the straight at the top. You use two steering inputs from the exit of the oval to the straight on top of the hill! It is a fantastic area to learn to trust your vehicle dynamics and surface camber. If you don't believe me, go with a good instructor. If you get it right, it feels fantastic, if you get it wrong, you'll fight all the way round that section to achieve a slow sector time.

 

[Optimum Performance]

Did you have a Coach? What did they say? I have had corners that I couldn't get right. Went out with the SCCA Chief in his Prepped NSX (R7's) and the corner I was struggling with he took at 30 and I was wondering why I was struggling in a two ton tank trying to take it at 45. Guess who was much faster? Over slow next time and work back up to it you may have too much going on that you are not seeing everything. End of the day it may just be a bad Mustang Corner.

 

[Optimum Performance]

That's a pure technique corner. Your rear will always be light, and your front correspondingly heavy, not matter what the mods are. NHMS is a great course to learn to HPDE...I also hate it as it has cost me close to 8K in repairs due to my bad driving and dumb c**ts with bad judgment. I don't go there any more!

The corner is different for light cars and heavy cars and they have different lines. It is the toughest corner on the course, the second is the downhill back to the oval as you understeer, again due to the physics of driving downhill. The third is the corner getting onto the front straight, getting the bounce off the kerbing just right, but not hitting the muddy hole and scraping your chassis.

It is all about understanding dynamics and patience. You can mod the H@ll out of your car, but if you don't figure out the physics, you will always struggle there, just on a different line. For a heavy car like a Mustang, you have to get as far left as possible and hit a "hole" at the bottom of the hill by the kerb which kicks the car right and then slowly applying power - patience! Believe it or not, if you do it right, you use the same steering input all the way from the bottom of the hill to the entrance of the bowl, using throttle and track incline/decline to create your line. Likewise, you use the same steering input to go through the bowl to the straight at the top. You use two steering inputs from the exit of the oval to the straight on top of the hill! It is a fantastic area to learn to trust your vehicle dynamics and surface camber. If you don't believe me, go with a good instructor. If you get it right, it feels fantastic, if you get it wrong, you'll fight all the way round that section to achieve a slow sector time.

THIS

 

[EFI]

Haha ok well thanks everyone for replying, looks like it's 75% technique and maybe 25% alignment when I get that checked out. Guess I just have to keep working on it.

 

[M3Convert]

If it's your second track day, it's technique and experience.

That's a slow "sacrifice" corner regardless of what car your driving and trying to force it just slows down the next half of the lap. The decision on how you handle that turn impacts your speed all the way through to the end of the straight on top of the hill just before the downhill left onto the oval. Your goal is to make sure you have the best line to enter the bowl to set up the back straight

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