Die hard Manual guys get in here!

[Hack]

I'm in the same boat as Billy and a lot of folks here....always been a manual kind of guy. But, as I get closer to 60, an auto trans ( if it's a really good one ) seems to start making a lot of sense. My track days are a small portion of the total mileage that I drive the car.....and an auto in heavy traffic would be awfully nice at times.

If there's no traffic the manual and auto are the same. Just leave it in 6th gear and cruise along. Heavy traffic is when the manual is the most fun - you actually get to use it!

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[Stuntman]

And somebody else's logic (and CAFE agenda) tells the hydraulic pressure what to do and when to do it.

For as often as I tend to shift - I used to figure about 30 - 35 shifts on the 5 mile commute to work in little or no traffic and 65 - 70 on the 5.5 mile return trip home in light to moderate traffic - 'Sport' mode sounds on the surface that it might suit me better. But then I realize that at any given moment that wouldn't suit me either. Especially these days, where I no longer have a commute and have more freedom to choose when to be driving. So if I've got to bother with switching between D and S, I'm well on the way to just doing it all myself anyway.

Norm

Your review of a 'modern performance auto' (despite the 997 Turbo's not very good Triptronic trans) was greatly flawwed by autocrossing it in DRIVE mode. You should have been in Sport Mode and better yet, have driven it on a real track or a twisty road at real speeds.

1 in put of switching from D to S is so difficult that you're "well on the way to just doing it all yourself"???

If there's no traffic the manual and auto are the same. Just leave it in 6th gear and cruise along. Heavy traffic is when the manual is the most fun - you actually get to use it!

First part true, but second part - I think the general populous would disagree that stop and go traffic is NOT fun in a manual transmission.

 

[foghat]

If there's no traffic the manual and auto are the same. Just leave it in 6th gear and cruise along. Heavy traffic is when the manual is the most fun - you actually get to use it!

You have a strange definition of 'fun'. And also, perhaps, of what it means to 'use' a manual.

 

[Krogen]

If there's no traffic the manual and auto are the same. Just leave it in 6th gear and cruise along. Heavy traffic is when the manual is the most fun - you actually get to use it!

Driving in traffic with a manual is just "driving in traffic." Muscle memory and training take over for you. It's almost like an automatic - a human brain powered automatic. I think a lot of newbies overthink the manual game. Witness the myriad questions about how to drive a manual, the clunks they make, how to rev match or heel & toe.

One of the best ways to simplify driving a manual in traffic is to get behind a semi. Gack! you say? Sure, you can't see around them and you may go slower than you think you'd like. But slow and steady is the trick in traffic. You can bet a semi will usually be doing that. And they can see way ahead. They'll be trying to stay in one gear based on their view of the road. Plus people are unlikely to cut between you and the semi.

 

[FranzVonHoffer]

Driving in traffic with a manual is just "driving in traffic." Muscle memory and training take over for you. It's almost like an automatic - a human brain powered automatic. I think a lot of newbies overthink the manual game. Witness the myriad questions about how to drive a manual, the clunks they make, how to rev match or heel & toe.

One of the best ways to simplify driving a manual in traffic is to get behind a semi. Gack! you say? Sure, you can't see around them and you may go slower than you think you'd like. But slow and steady is the trick in traffic. You can bet a semi will usually be doing that. And they can see way ahead. They'll be trying to stay in one gear based on their view of the road. Plus people are unlikely to cut between you and the semi.

^ This.. I have a slow 1 mile section of merging traffic and this is my key to clutchless stop and go traffic.

I recently got stuck on an interstate that was closed due to semi that hit a bridge and we all sat there for a couple of hours. I just stuck in neutral and caught up on my email. You don't have to sit with the clutch pedal depressed the whole time.

 

[Stormtrooper5.0]

I never minded traffic in a MT. I love the feel of shifting.

 

[Hack]

You have a strange definition of 'fun'. And also, perhaps, of what it means to 'use' a manual.

Shifting gears is fun for me. No traffic = no shifting.

Driving in traffic with a manual is just "driving in traffic." Muscle memory and training take over for you. It's almost like an automatic - a human brain powered automatic. I think a lot of newbies overthink the manual game. Witness the myriad questions about how to drive a manual, the clunks they make, how to rev match or heel & toe.

One of the best ways to simplify driving a manual in traffic is to get behind a semi. Gack! you say? Sure, you can't see around them and you may go slower than you think you'd like. But slow and steady is the trick in traffic. You can bet a semi will usually be doing that. And they can see way ahead. They'll be trying to stay in one gear based on their view of the road. Plus people are unlikely to cut between you and the semi.

So when you're in traffic you never use engine braking to slow the car down and listen joyfully to the pops and burbles of the exhaust? You never rev match down shift? You never hang it extra long in a gear, nail it briefly to hear the wail of the engine and chirp of the tires, then hold the clutch a little extra long to allow the RPM to settle and gentle snick it into the next gear? You never push in the clutch in an underpass and rev the throttle?

I absolutely love playing with a manual transmission car in stop and go freeway traffic. It's the most fun time. Otherwise you are just linearly accelerating to the speed limit or cruising in a single gear at the speed limit. OK, but not as much fun. I absolutely can't stand sitting in a car with an automatic in stop and go. SOOOOOO boring!

 

[TexasRebel]

Shifting gears is fun for me. No traffic = no shifting.




So when you're in traffic you never use engine braking to slow the car down and listen joyfully to the pops and burbles of the exhaust? You never rev match down shift? You never hang it extra long in a gear, nail it briefly to hear the wail of the engine and chirp of the tires, then hold the clutch a little extra long to allow the RPM to settle and gentle snick it into the next gear? You never push in the clutch in an underpass and rev the throttle?

I absolutely love playing with a manual transmission car in stop and go freeway traffic. It's the most fun time. Otherwise you are just linearly accelerating to the speed limit or cruising in a single gear at the speed limit. OK, but not as much fun. I absolutely can't stand sitting in a car with an automatic in stop and go. SOOOOOO boring!

truely, a mustang (or any vehicle really) with an automatic transmission is just a powerful golf cart that has doors.

 

[Sabre]

If there's no traffic the manual and auto are the same. Just leave it in 6th gear and cruise along. Heavy traffic is when the manual is the most fun - you actually get to use it!

What I was referring to by "heavy traffic" is the creep, stop and go kind...where in 15 -20 minutes you've maybe moved a mile. An auto would be nice in those conditions.

 

[TexasRebel]

What I was referring to by "heavy traffic" is the creep, stop and go kind...where in 15 -20 minutes you've maybe moved a mile. An auto would be nice in those conditions.

why? If more people drove stick you wouldn't have such a caterpillar effect from people lurching forward just to brake quickly.

1st gear, clutch out, no throttle. You end up going the average speed in most traffic.

 

[foghat]

Shifting gears is fun for me. No traffic = no shifting.




So when you're in traffic you never use engine braking to slow the car down and listen joyfully to the pops and burbles of the exhaust? You never rev match down shift? You never hang it extra long in a gear, nail it briefly to hear the wail of the engine and chirp of the tires, then hold the clutch a little extra long to allow the RPM to settle and gentle snick it into the next gear? You never push in the clutch in an underpass and rev the throttle?

I absolutely love playing with a manual transmission car in stop and go freeway traffic. It's the most fun time. Otherwise you are just linearly accelerating to the speed limit or cruising in a single gear at the speed limit. OK, but not as much fun. I absolutely can't stand sitting in a car with an automatic in stop and go. SOOOOOO boring!

I think your definition of 'heavy traffic' is different than most - or at least mine.

To me heavy traffic means you are stopping and going every 10 feet or so. And generally speaking are lucky if you make it into second gear.

 

[jasonstang]

What I was referring to by "heavy traffic" is the creep, stop and go kind...where in 15 -20 minutes you've maybe moved a mile. An auto would be nice in those conditions.

I think it's about the same.
You either hold the brake pedal for 15-20 minutes or you hold the clutch pedal for the same amount.

 

[BobbyGT]

Do you want to drive your car, or do you want to be driven?

Thats basically how I feel the manual vs automatic argument is.

If the automatic is slightly faster because of the gearing, add more power. Problem solved, the 0.4 second reduced shift time wont mean anything if your car is plain ole faster.

 

[Norm Peterson]

Your review of a 'modern performance auto' (despite the 997 Turbo's not very good Triptronic trans) was greatly flawwed by autocrossing it in DRIVE mode. You should have been in Sport Mode and better yet, have driven it on a real track or a twisty road at real speeds.

1 in put of switching from D to S is so difficult that you're "well on the way to just doing it all yourself"???

I wanted to use the available paddles, but the instructor I drew insisted otherwise. I used to autocross, including a few times on that very lot, and that course was pretty darn 'open' by comparison. Too bad they didn't have a radar gun set up - I think I cracked 70 mph.

And my point is that if I have to keep doing the D-S-D-S- . . . dance - which I know would happen at least some of the time, I might as well do 1-2-3-4-3-2-4- . . . or +, +, +, -, +, - ,-, ++, . . . as the case may be. Note the skipped 3rd gear.

First part true, but second part - I think the general populous would disagree that stop and go traffic is NOT fun in a manual transmission.

Stop and go traffic wasn't fun with an automatic either. Bad enough that I decided very early in the game that I wasn't going to let myself get trapped in the same sort of commute that my Dad had (SE Massachusetts to Cambridge and back, via Boston). Made it stick for virtually all of a 42 year career, too (see what I did there?).


Norm

 

[Norm Peterson]

You guys with manuals, how many of you have wives/SOs who can't drive manual and choose not to learn - and do they complain about your choice of transmission?

So I asked my wife this afternoon if she could remember the circumstances behind her deciding to learn how to drive a MT car. She is not and never was a "car person", didn't even get her driver's license until she was almost 21.

Turns out she'd lost confidence in the 1964 Dodge that we also had - pushbutton transmission control, arguably even further away from conventional MT driving than any lever-shifted AT let alone one with the shifter on the floor. The lever in the vertical slot to the left sets the parking sprag (and runs the transmission into "N" if you didn't already do that) . . . essentially the "P" position in PRNDL.

It was 100% her initiative, all I'd ever done previously was just drive the MT car and let her see for herself that it wasn't all that difficult. The problem today with wives and GFs that don't want to learn is "fear of the unknown" because in general they haven't had much exposure to it. Maybe none at all.

Our daughter was driving stick on her permit (she pretty much had to, and I'm sure she knew that going in), as was our oldest granddaughter (it being convenient for us to help her get her practice driving in)


I wonder what a poll of wives & GFs that don't want to learn to drive stick vs how much exposure to MT driving they had while they were growing up (none/a little/some/a lot) would find.


Norm

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