Kenne Bell Creates A Four-Digit-Capable 5.2-Liter Engine

[Zitrosounds]

Right, that is talking about a blank hunk of raw material that is billet. That doesn't refer to the end product.

I've worked in engineering/manufacturing for over 30 years, but we never use the term billet - at least I can say I've never seen it on a part drawing. The raw material is specified in a different manner using numbers and descriptions such as cast, hot rolled, cold rolled with UNS and temper numbers. IMO terms like "billet" are not exact enough to get what you really want.

Smart man!

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[NipSC4328]

A little more info on billet steel, FWIW.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semi-finished_casting_products

 

[Zitrosounds]

A little more info on billet steel, FWIW.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semi-finished_casting_products

NEVER use wiki for a reference. NEVER!!!!!

 

[NipSC4328]

NEVER use wiki for a reference. NEVER!!!!!

Would like me to post links to numerous other sites that say the same thing?

http://smt.sandvik.com/en/products/billets-and-blooms/production-process/

https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-difference-between-ingot-bloom-slab-and-billet

One thing I know for a fact is that cast steel, be it sand cast or any other process is very difficult to break, as opposed to cast iron or sintered metal. To remove steel castings from the gating system requires cutting of some type where iron can be broken off the gating tree.

 

[Lexluther]

http://www.fordnxt.com/tech-stories/engine/kenne-bell-creates-a-four-digit-capable-5-2-liter-engine/

Impressive build from this legendary engine builder. Wish they would of found a way to keep the flat plane crankshaft but good info about the block strength, cylinder heads and oiling system that I have not read before.

I am happy with my NA Voodoo but I see a few of these showing up in a mustang or street rod near you. Or your lucky enough to pick up one of the 50 Hurst-Kenne Bell R-Code Mustangs.

Those MF'ers I called them just this week about a Hellcat blower and we ending up on the GT350 subject and they told me they didn't have either. They said they had no plans to do a GT350 and I told them they would be the only ones left out since every other MFG had a blower out since the GT kits fit GT350 with minor mods.

They said only a 3.2L may possibly work because of the 18k rpm max internal blower speed since the voodoo has a higher rpm and selecting proper crank and blower pulley would be difficult but has not been tested. The other blowers including the 4.2L in the article only spin 12k rpm blower speed. Since there was rpm limitations they weren't considering a GT350 kit. Now Kenne Bell has a strong relationship with Shelby as a supplier on some of their in house cars so WTF?

 

[Strokerswild]

Right, that is talking about a blank hunk of raw material that is billet. That doesn't refer to the end product.

I've worked in engineering/manufacturing for over 30 years, but we never use the term billet - at least I can say I've never seen it on a part drawing. The raw material is specified in a different manner using numbers and descriptions such as cast, hot rolled, cold rolled with UNS and temper numbers. IMO terms like "billet" are not exact enough to get what you really want.

This.

I chuckle every time I see the term "billet" used in describing a motorcycle or car part. Such misinformation.

On topic, an acquaintance of mine is putting together a max-effort CPC 5.2 with a ProCharger, and it's going in a Fox-body vert. Should be loony.

 

[65Terdlingua]

The information at your link isn't referring to the same thing as a billet part on an automobile.

You're saying a billet machined part on a car is different than a billet machined part on a plane or in a power station or anywhere else? Billet is a material/process type, not specific to any industry.

 

[machsmith]

Here is a good explanation of what's what.
http://victorylibrary.com/mopar/billet-c.htm

 

[Stage_3]

Ive been debating to S/C or TT, pretty much made the call to TT the Shelby with a local shop I know down here in So Cal.

Definitely start a build thread!!

 

[NipSC4328]

Being called billet doesn't tell you what grade of material is used it only tells you the process by which the material is produced. It does tell you that it is not merely cast or powdered metal material.

 

[Lexluther]

Ive been debating to S/C or TT, pretty much made the call to TT the Shelby with a local shop I know down here in So Cal.

If you notice in the article when discussing the 10rib drive belt system they said the reason was the blowers produce 100-400hp load depending on the application. So thats 100-400hp you'll never see at the wheel as its lost spinning the blower. You need to redo the drive belts to add the 10ribs system to prevent belt slip due to all those ponies being lost through it.

After all the work including the custom stuff they said 950hp at the wheels. Hellion just replaced the piston and rods slapped their turbo kit on it maintaining the voodoo 180deg crank and got 1014hp at the wheels.

Turbos will always be more efficient than superchargers and requiring less boost for the same power means less stress on the engine.

 

[Hack]

You're saying a billet machined part on a car is different than a billet machined part on a plane or in a power station or anywhere else? Billet is a material/process type, not specific to any industry.

The link that was posted earlier described a raw blank of material, not a machined part.

I'm saying the word billet is inexact and that some people use it liberally to describe things that are not all the same.

If you look at the part drawings or manufacturing routings for the items you are mentioning, I would be surprised if you would see the word "billet" anywhere.

It's like if I said I drove my car to work you wouldn't be sure whether it was the '70 or the 2016, or something else in my garage. Inexact.

 

[65Terdlingua]

The link that was posted earlier described a raw blank of material, not a machined part.

I'm saying the word billet is inexact and that some people use it liberally to describe things that are not all the same.

If you look at the part drawings or manufacturing routings for the items you are mentioning, I would be surprised if you would see the word "billet" anywhere.

It's like if I said I drove my car to work you wouldn't be sure whether it was the '70 or the 2016, or something else in my garage. Inexact.

I was just providing detail on the differences in cast vs billet material, which applies in any application. It's fair to say 'billet' OPG's are machined from billet steel, while cast OPG's are machined from a casting. Both providing their own material properties/cost, With billet being better for this application. Maybe I am wrongly assuming it that people understand that 'billet OPG's' are obviously machined from a billet.

 

[Voodooo]

So, the word billet means the part is machined from a single piece of material. That piece of material could be cast plate - and probably is. My opinion is it would be very unusual to forge a piece of plate and then try to machine something from it. And it wouldn't make any sense to do that anyway, as the forging process should be near net (final shape) in order to impart additional strength to the completed part.

IMO billet really doesn't mean much in terms of durability or what the component "should" look like when it fails, other than it might reduce casting flaws if whoever designed the mold tool and molding process made an error. I would be surprised if Ford doesn't know how to design a mold for casting an aluminum part.

Now, if the part was forged, I would agree with your thoughts about what failure should look like.

Could you post up photos or a link to these failed parts?

Are you serious? Do you have any experience in tool and die, machinist, metallurgy?
Cast plate is NOT billet!
Cast anything is not billet.
I'll agree, billet doesn't mean stronger over forged.
Most aftermarket vendors use the word billet because a lot of people do not know the meaning of 4130,4340,s7,9310,6061, T6 etc.

 

[olaosunt]

If you notice in the article when discussing the 10rib drive belt system they said the reason was the blowers produce 100-400hp load depending on the application. So thats 100-400hp you'll never see at the wheel as its lost spinning the blower. You need to redo the drive belts to add the 10ribs system to prevent belt slip due to all those ponies being lost through it.

After all the work including the custom stuff they said 950hp at the wheels. Hellion just replaced the piston and rods slapped their turbo kit on it maintaining the voodoo 180deg crank and got 1014hp at the wheels.

Turbos will always be more efficient than superchargers and requiring less boost for the same power means less stress on the engine.

I just made the same power(955) on E85 using a 3.2/8 rib (3.5 upper/7.88 lower) on a built 5.0(Manley pistons 11:1CR/rods/water jacket supports ),GT 350 heads/springs ,GT cams .I am also using the GT 350 oil pump and pan but upgraded the OPg
Exhaust is catless 1 7/8 headers. Average boost is 20 psi but peaks at 22 psi above 7200 rpm .

I am building a sleeved 5.2 with Oliver rods to swap in when I am done with the 5.0(hopefully it survives as I shoot for a 9 second slip )
I will be upgrading the valve springs and still debating cams -stay with stock GT cams or upgrade to GT 350 spec cams or blows cams .

I will be swapping in a Magnum Tremec when I swap the block .
It may be for sale when I am done (will be much less than the Hurst!)

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