Ford Racing ProCal Tune

[TheLion]

I'm not saying I disagree with what you are saying here but think the way you're interpreting it is misleading. Now that you've read that, it would probably help if you read the Ford warranty and read it from their perspective. I referenced the section a while back but basically Ford says (loose translation, not a quote) if you modify your vehicle with aftermarket parts, they will not cover damage that may have come as a result of that upgrade.

There is no such thing as "voiding the warranty". That is a saying and not worded correctly at all. Nothing is voiding the warranty, even if you get a tune from another tuner that doesn't warrant it, it's the exact same thing. The only difference here is, that if there is a problem that Ford can blame on the upgrade, Ford Performance will cover it for 3/36. If there is a problem after 3/36 and Ford blames it on the upgrade, FP isn't going to cover it and neither will Ford because you made the modification. Believe me, Ford is very free thinking too on what "could" have been caused by the tune/modifications. For example that cam bolt. They can and most likely will say the extra stress from that tune was likely to blame. As for the fuel pump, well maybe they feel the tune ran the fuel pump at a higher duration than stock which led to early failure. You're very logical, I'm sure you understand my point. I'm not asking anyone to believe me, just pull out your warranty from Ford (don't ask someone) and read it.

Right, I understand where your going with the after market modifications, however FP, Motune and to a lesser degree Roush and Livernois have a working relationship with Ford. Ford would need to have reasonable evidence to suggest the failure was related directly to a Ford Performance or Montune modification. It seems unlikely they would throw a business partner like that under the bus, which attracts significant business to their performance line of cars, which is now quite extensive (Fiesta ST, Focus ST, Focus RS, Taurus SHO, F-150 based Raptor, Mustang and now the up and coming GT).

I don't think it's as simple as them claiming a cambolt or what ever part / parts failed because of PCM software / CAI without being able to make a reasonable case as to how that could be as an example. Remember the dealer has some discretion even at their level and this is a warranted modification type that's been around for years on mustangs (Ford Performance Power Packs that is).

Ford would need to have reasonable evidence that the FP modification was indeed the cause. But at the very least we know your safe up to 36k with the FP solution.

Weather or not you want to stick with the FP software past that or move on to something hotter like Livernois after that period would be up to you, but there may still be less risk up to 60k with the FP software from a warranty standpoint. The language used by FP has been vetted by lawyers out the wazoo, you can bet on that. I can guarantee they also have consulted extensively on Ford to make sure their claims are not false to avoid legal trouble. I think it's a safe bet to rely on it as it is and it's pretty clear.

From a functional standpoint I am not aware of any failed engines using FP, Montune, Roush or Livernois software, at least not mustang Ecoboosts, Fiesta ST's or Focus ST's, but only one of the aforementioned offers any significant performance gain that would be worth considering stepping up to over what FP offers so I suppose their mention is more to illustrate the point.

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[jbailer]

Right, I understand where your going with the after market modifications, however FP, Motune and to a lesser degree Roush and Livernois have a working relationship with Ford. Ford would need to have reasonable evidence to suggest the failure was related directly to a Ford Performance or Montune modification. It seems unlikely they would throw a business partner like that under the bus, which attracts significant business to their performance line of cars, which is now quite extensive (Fiesta ST, Focus ST, Focus RS, Taurus SHO, F-150 based Raptor, Mustang and now the up and coming GT).

I don't think it's as simple as them claiming a cambolt or what ever part / parts failed because of PCM software / CAI without being able to make a reasonable case as to how that could be as an example. Remember the dealer has some discretion even at their level and this is a warranted modification type that's been around for years on mustangs (Ford Performance Power Packs that is).

Ford would need to have reasonable evidence that the FP modification was indeed the cause. But at the very least we know your safe up to 36k with the FP solution.

Weather or not you want to stick with the FP software past that or move on to something hotter like Livernois after that period would be up to you, but there may still be less risk up to 60k with the FP software from a warranty standpoint. The language used by FP has been vetted by lawyers out the wazoo, you can bet on that. I can guarantee they also have consulted extensively on Ford to make sure their claims are not false to avoid legal trouble. I think it's a safe bet to rely on it as it is and it's pretty clear.

From a functional standpoint I am not aware of any failed engines using FP, Montune, Roush or Livernois software, at least not mustang Ecoboosts, Fiesta ST's or Focus ST's, but only one of the aforementioned offers any significant performance gain that would be worth considering stepping up to over what FP offers so I suppose their mention is more to illustrate the point.

It absolutely is that simple and Ford doesn't need to have reasonable evidence to deny warranty service. It's very cut and dry, read your Ford warranty. Just because you want to "think" Ford will play nice because it is Ford Performance or Mountune or anyone else isn't going to make it true. Like I said many times, read your warranty, they even mention both of them by name. I've put too much energy into this already, I'm just trying to help others and guys like you come along and say crap like this giving them false hope. Read the warranty, apply some sense, I'm done.

 

[metalhead79]

Quick question, since the pro cal tune changes the powertrain warranty to 3 years/36k miles, is that 36k miles from when you install it as long as you're inside the 60k mile powertrain warranty or is it for the first 36k miles only.

If I installed it at, say, 20k miles, would I only have it for the remaining 16k? Or would it be the full 36k and would end at 56k on the car? Or if you installed it at 40k miles, you'd only get 20k miles of warranty since all warranty ends at 60k?

I ask because by the time I'll be able to get a tune - any tune - on the car will probably be late 2017 when I'm around 15-17k miles. I had originally planned on getting tuned in Jan/Feb but life happened and now it's going to be a long while.

Also, I believe jbailer is correct. The only tune that will not cause warranty issue is the Pro Cal tune. It doesn't matter if LMS and Mountune have a close relationship with Ford, they aren't first party like Ford Performance. If the engine blows while you have one of their tunes you're out of luck (or in luck if you need an excuse to do a motor swap or put in a built motor).

 

[jtmat]

Quick question, since the pro cal tune changes the powertrain warranty to 3 years/36k miles, is that 36k miles from when you install it as long as you're inside the 60k mile powertrain warranty or is it for the first 36k miles only.

If I installed it at, say, 20k miles, would I only have it for the remaining 16k? Or would it be the full 36k and would end at 56k on the car? Or if you installed it at 40k miles, you'd only get 20k miles of warranty since all warranty ends at 60k?

I ask because by the time I'll be able to get a tune - any tune - on the car will probably be late 2017 when I'm around 15-17k miles. I had originally planned on getting tuned in Jan/Feb but life happened and now it's going to be a long while.

Also, I believe jbailer is correct. The only tune that will not cause warranty issue is the Pro Cal tune. It doesn't matter if LMS and Mountune have a close relationship with Ford, they aren't first party like Ford Performance. If the engine blows while you have one of their tunes you're out of luck (or in luck if you need an excuse to do a motor swap or put in a built motor).

You keep your original 3/36 and 5/60 if not tune related issue.

Only time it becomes an issue if Ford/dealer determine issue is tune related. If tune related and within 3/36 then Ford Performance will handle; if outside of 3/36 but within 5/60 you are sht out of luck.

The tune does not reset warranty....


All the BS in this thread is basically on wording... what does "void warranty" mean? To some, like what happened to me, means a dealer will not work on your car. My dealer next door "voided my warranty" by not working on my car.

Was my warranty actually voided? No. I took my car to another dealer and they fixed the issue, without batting an eye.

Play on words... some people want to get in the weeds and make an argument out of every little darn thing they can.

Edit: it does not matter which tune you are using... you have better luck if FP tune since they have a warranty and will pay for the damage, if within 3/36. Tune+ or Unleashed or liverNose you are out of luck... they might offer you a discount on an engine or something.

 

[jbailer]

Quick question, since the pro cal tune changes the powertrain warranty to 3 years/36k miles, is that 36k miles from when you install it as long as you're inside the 60k mile powertrain warranty or is it for the first 36k miles only.

If I installed it at, say, 20k miles, would I only have it for the remaining 16k? Or would it be the full 36k and would end at 56k on the car? Or if you installed it at 40k miles, you'd only get 20k miles of warranty since all warranty ends at 60k?

I ask because by the time I'll be able to get a tune - any tune - on the car will probably be late 2017 when I'm around 15-17k miles. I had originally planned on getting tuned in Jan/Feb but life happened and now it's going to be a long while.

Also, I believe jbailer is correct. The only tune that will not cause warranty issue is the Pro Cal tune. It doesn't matter if LMS and Mountune have a close relationship with Ford, they aren't first party like Ford Performance. If the engine blows while you have one of their tunes you're out of luck (or in luck if you need an excuse to do a motor swap or put in a built motor).

It would be nice if it worked that way but unfortunately not. I forget the way they worded it but the Ford Performance warranty starts the day your factory warranty starts so for instance in my case, I have 29k on my car. The FP warranty will only cover me for the next 7k miles.

 

[metalhead79]

That was my suspicion.

 

[tw557]

I asked the service and parts manager about the warranty with this FP tune and my CPO. They as long and purchased and installed by then I will have no warranty issues. I said what if I throw a rod out the side at 70000 miles. Barely let me finish the sentence and no problem with warranty covering the engine. He said something would need to be found to have gone wrong with the tune. Of course I don't have anything in writing. But in writing he did point out that it states that something would need to be proven that the aftermarket part failed.

 

[Chef jpd]

LMAO, all i have to say after 800 posts and the still the same BS from page 1.

 

[apx632]

It absolutely is that simple and Ford doesn't need to have reasonable evidence to deny warranty service. It's very cut and dry, read your Ford warranty. Just because you want to "think" Ford will play nice because it is Ford Performance or Mountune or anyone else isn't going to make it true. Like I said many times, read your warranty, they even mention both of them by name. I've put too much energy into this already, I'm just trying to help others and guys like you come along and say crap like this giving them false hope. Read the warranty, apply some sense, I'm done.

Actually yes a dealership DOES have to prove that a modification was the direct cause of a failure on a car before denying a warranty claim. Most people just won't challenge it. And those that do often end up winning the battle with the dealership.

 

[jbailer]

Actually yes a dealership DOES have to prove that a modification was the direct cause of a failure on a car before denying a warranty claim. Most people just won't challenge it. And those that do often end up winning the battle with the dealership.

Nope. They don't have to prove that the modification caused the problem to deny coverage under warranty, they do it all the time. You always have the right to take them to court at your time and expense (unless you win) and if YOU can prove that the modification didn't cause the problem they will have to pay for it but the burden of proof is on the consumer, not Ford.

 

[apx632]

Nope. They don't have to prove that the modification caused the problem to deny coverage under warranty, they do it all the time. You always have the right to take them to court at your time and expense (unless you win) and if YOU can prove that the modification didn't cause the problem they will have to pay for it but the burden of proof is on the consumer, not Ford.

Incorrect. Burden of proof is on the dealership. But this debate can be saved for a different thread as it is going off topic of what this thread is intended for.

 

[Radiation Joe]

Incorrect. Burden of proof is on the dealership. But this debate can be saved for a different thread as it is going off topic of what this thread is intended for.

You'll never win with these guys. You are correct. Burden of proof is on the dealer.

What people are missing here is that an aftermarket tune can not void your warranty under Magnuson-Moss. It has to be proven to have caused a covered failure. However, when you purchase a Ford Performance tune, you are explicitly giving up the factory warranty.

Fools and their money ...

 

[JonD]

You'll never win with these guys. You are correct. Burden of proof is on the dealer.

What people are missing here is that an aftermarket tune can not void your warranty under Magnuson-Moss. It has to be proven to have caused a covered failure. However, when you purchase a Ford Performance tune, you are explicitly giving up the factory warranty.

Fools and their money ...

I'm new to Ford... not new to cars
Can you share why Ford wouldn't have to prove the FP Tune did damage just like any other? Since People are deemed fools to many with such vast knowledge

 

[Radiation Joe]

I'm new to Ford... not new to cars
Can you share why Ford wouldn't have to prove the FP Tune did damage just like any other? Since People are deemed fools to many with such vast knowledge

Really? You haven't read that when you buy this tune your power train warranty goes from 5/60 to 3/36? This is "explicit" in the purchase agreement. Otherwise, it wouldn't affect your warranty, just as aftermarket tunes don't affect your warranty.

I've had aftermarket tunes on my current Focus, three M3s and an Audi RS6. Every one of these cars were covered for engine issues under the factory warranties. Why? Because it's illegal to deny them. Why this gets argued on forums escapes me.

 

[WileECoyote79]

Here's something else to think about — all of the failures have been early '15 cars. The '16 cars, E code engines, have had zero failures.

And of course mine was built 06-FEBRUARY-2015 :frusty:

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