2017 ZL1 vs GT350R??

[Davy_Baby9]

Arguing with fanboys is always a losing proposition.

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[Zitrosounds]

To say it is the same basic engine is purely foolish. Sure it has the same general design, but today's engine has direct injection, cylinder deactivation, etc, all modern technologies.

Hp/L means absolutely nothing. I could say that my 2.0L in my CLA45 has 180hp/l, does that make it worlds better than the 5.2 with a "measly" 101 hp/l? Your argument is invalid; they have taken an old school design, and turned it into a very modern engine.

While the character and revving capabilities of the 5.2 are superior IMO, you cannot discredit the superior torque, packaging, weight, and fuel efficiency. If you could take your 5.2 and just get an extra 6-7mpg out of it, would you say "no thats dumb it's not supposed to be good on gas cause its a sports car"? Im positive you wouldn't.

You are simply discrediting the work and the engineering that has gone into the LT/LS motors that have taken a simple design from decades ago, and turned them into fantastic engines today with a Lot of desirable traits.

Its actually 102hp per liter. However, I agree that GM has taken a proven platform and improved on it by squeezing every little bit out with modern technology. I honestly don't care for the MPG argument because I really only drive my 350 in a manner where economy is a mute point. As you mentioned, the Voodoo has gobs more character as an engine and also for me much more desirable power delivery for the track.

 

[Hack]

To say it is the same basic engine is purely foolish.

I agree with this. The current GM V8 engine designs are much better now that they have been changed to be more like a small block Ford from the 70s.

Siamese intakes and exhausts were never a good design.
They had a poor firing order.
Thrust bearing location.
Bolts per cylinder.

All examples of items that GM changed from the original SBC to "new" designs that were more like a small block Ford.

I have nothing against engines with pushrods. The problem is when you use a pushrod engine and are stuck with modern EPA and CAFE limitations you end up with a truck/station wagon motor. It's crummy, but it's the reality we are living in.

I don't want an engine that has cylinder deactivation/glazing built in. I like my rings to seal, thank you.

 

[Voodooo]

It's just a Camaro.

 

[J_Maher_AMG]

Its actually 102hp per liter. However, I agree that GM has taken a proven platform and improved on it by squeezing every little bit out with modern technology. I honestly don't care for the MPG argument because I really only drive my 350 in a manner where economy is a mute point. As you mentioned, the Voodoo has gobs more character as an engine and also for me much more desirable power delivery for the track.

526/5.2 = 101.1 ;)

I completely agree, I absolutely love the track oriented power band, and am constantly daydreaming about revving the 5.2 out. It has a completely unique character and is unlike anything else out there IMO. My points to the other users were simply their disregard of the positive qualities of GMs small blocks. Anyone can prefer any type of engine, but to take away credit from them because of a badge just doesn't coalesce with a true car enthusiast's perspective IMO.

It is no secret that Ford has had more sales success for decades than GM, so I personally think that what the GM guys have done with an old school design is very impressive honestly. I would be willing to bet their engineers only wish that they could go truly wild and design an all new engine from the ground up like the FP guys did with the 5.2L. It is the penny pinchers and accountants that are holding back the GM team from producing a similarly special engine; they can only work with what they are given.

That being said, the new S550 platform looks light years better IMO, it doesnt bother me if the new Camaro is faster or can beat it around a track, I'll be grinning ear to ear listening to the 5.2L without a care in the world

 

[Hack]

I would be willing to bet their engineers only wish that they could go truly wild and design an all new engine from the ground up like the FP guys did with the 5.2L. It is the penny pinchers and accountants that are holding back the GM team from producing a similarly special engine; they can only work with what they are given.

Isn't the V6 in the Camaro a more modern double overhead cam design? I think that V6 is a really good motor. I actually preferred it over the Mustang V6 when I drove them back to back on the same day a few years ago.

Not like the GM engineers would have to start from nothing to do a DOHC V8 engine.

 

[AGGT350]

Soooooooooooooooo, is anyone going to check out the ZL1 once it hits dealers lots?
I know I will.

 

[Hack]

Soooooooooooooooo, is anyone going to check out the ZL1 once it hits dealers lots?
I know I will.

If the reviews are really good and I can find a local dealer with a ZL1 I will probably at least check it out. If they won't let me drive it I might drive an SS at that time just to see what the car is like.

 

[Mike02z]

Soooooooooooooooo, is anyone going to check out the ZL1 once it hits dealers lots?
I know I will.

Not me. Never liked the new Camaro design but loved the Gen 4 models. You simply can't see properly out of any Camaro.

I also don't like S/C cars at the track. They will smoke you for 2 laps then have to stop or lose a ton of power due to heatsoak. That has been plaguing the LT4 engines since introduction.

 

[Voodooo]

Soooooooooooooooo, is anyone going to check out the ZL1 once it hits dealers lots?
I know I will.

Nope it's a GM

 

[chuckty101]

If the LS V8 engines are so great, how come the big block Corvettes got beat at LeMans by a 3.5L/215cid V6 engine. LOL

 

[ghostrider]

Too heavy and no carbon fiber wheels, I'll pass.

 

[J_Maher_AMG]

If the LS V8 engines are so great, how come the big block Corvettes got beat at LeMans by a 3.5L/215cid V6 engine. LOL

Yes, because LeMans race cars win solely based on their engine performance... You sound very bright.

FYI: the 6.2L's are small blocks lol all your comments have no substance or weight behind them.

 

[J_Maher_AMG]

Isn't the V6 in the Camaro a more modern double overhead cam design? I think that V6 is a really good motor. I actually preferred it over the Mustang V6 when I drove them back to back on the same day a few years ago.

Not like the GM engineers would have to start from nothing to do a DOHC V8 engine.

Honestly not sure, don't know much about their NA V6 because i admit it's not something I'm interested in haha

I agree they wouldn't the starting from scratch per se, my point was merely that if they were given free reign and weren't given such a strict budget, I would like to see what they would be capable of coming up with when considering what they have done so far for a company on a much smaller budget who haven't had anywhere close to as much economic success as Ford has over the past decades.

 

[Trackaholic]

The new LT1 is a very good engine, with great low-end torque, good fuel economy, and relatively low weight (although quite a bit heavier than past SBC's due to the direct injection and AFM hardware). Still is a relatively small engine as well.

However, it does have a torque curve suited for a daily driver or truck, rather than a sports car. It does fall flat up top, which I noticed at the track and which made me lean strongly towards the GT350, even though I knew the GT350 would likely be slower than the Vette on track. I really wanted the experience of the high-revving engine that pulls strongly to redline.

The SBC's also tend to have oiling issues under high G's at the track, making the dry sump an important feature. I've seen a couple lose engines at track days, although part of that is the large number of Corvettes that participate and which are very, very, fast.

If the C7 GS had used an updated version of the LS7, I very well may have traded the GT350 for that. As it stands, the LT1's character doesn't quite work for me, which is strange because I actually spend the vast majority of my driving at low RPM's where the LT1 is much superior to the Voodoo.

Voodoo swap into the C7GS would be about perfect for me.

The ZL1 will do better keeping torque at the high end due to the SC, but that's not a good option for a track car IMO. I'd be more likely to go with a 1LE than a ZL1. Really would like to see GM do a version of the LT1 without the AFM, using a slightly hotter cam in order to get the top end breathing improved. Maybe not quite an updated LS7, but just a hotter version of the LT1 - that would be interesting.

-T

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