2017 CHEVROLET CAMARO ZL1 VS. 2017 FORD MUSTANG SHELBY GT350R: THE FOREVER WAR

[Zombo]

It won't be the first time they did this. Back in the 90s the ZR1 Vettes had a DOHC engine that made 405 hp and was keeping up with the Viper of that era. Only time will tell what they'll do in the future. But personally, I like variety. And the fact that they're still sticking to pushrod engines is cool. I'm not really a fan of DOHC V8 engines.

Yes, that ZR1 engine was designed and built by Lotus.

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[Norm Peterson]

Well, and the V6 in the Camaro is a DOHC engine. That's a good engine in my opinion.

Decent enough on power/displacement and rev capability, anyway.

But a lot of the exhaust manifolding for that engine is integrated into the head castings, which has to be imposing lower limits than would be the case with more conventional exhaust port arrangements.

http://www.lsxmag.com/news/camaro-v6-shaves-weight-adds-power-with-new-cylinder-head/


Norm

 

[roygriffin2020]

There's also the Cadillac Northstar engines that GM made with DOHC engines. I remember hearing at the time that those engines made good power.

Well, and the V6 in the Camaro is a DOHC engine. That's a good engine in my opinion.

I would assume that all the 4 cylinder engines that GM makes are also DOHC, because really DOHC is a superior design for a performance engine.

I know that DOHC engines are much taller then pushrod, so they needed a shorter motor for the vette just to be able to get it in there.

 

[roygriffin2020]

Shelby coming in 0.39 seconds slower is your quantifiable evidence? Ok.

Sure it is quantifiable, what does that word mean: "able to be expressed or measured as a quantity"

So if it can be measured as a quantity, then it is quantifiable.

 

[AirBusPilot]

Yes, that ZR1 engine was designed and built by Lotus.

I believe it was assembled by Mercury Marine in Oklahoma. Designed by Lotus, but GM was obsessed with keeping the bore spacing the same as their gen 1 small blocks, which limited power.

I used to own one, it was an incredible engine.

 

[mdmoore23]

Very, very excited to see their DOHC engine. It'll be refreshing to see them finally stepping into the future. Their push-rod engines were a huge turn off. I prefer a sports car without a truck engine in it.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. And Camaros, Mustangs, and Challengers share engines with trucks if you haven't noticed.

 

[Hack]

I know that DOHC engines are much taller then pushrod, so they needed a shorter motor for the vette just to be able to get it in there.

The DOHC V6 fits just fine in the Camaro. How much taller is it than the SS V8?

 

[Norm Peterson]

From the engine swaps form at http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?40,2560735,page=3 . He appears to be referencing the (previous) LLT V6.

Not the exact engine, but very similar.

Also found the following dimensions:

bottom of oilpan to tallest point on manifold 30"
Width 23" to outside of heads 25" to outside of manifolds (LLT engine)
Length from back of block to front of damper 20.5" add a few inches for the high pressure pump out the backside! (The ford 302 is 27.5" with the short waterpump by comparison.

Or from what I could quickly find in an older Chevy Power book, a little over an inch taller than a Mark IV BBC from pan to top of stock air cleaner.

It's going to be relatively tall due to the 60° bank to bank angle.


Norm

 

[crs2879]

The early 90's ZR1 engine was designed by Lotus but was manufactured by Mercury Marine in Stillwater, OK....

Interesting factoid....the Barber Motorsports Museum in Birmingham, AL (think the largest motorcycle collection in the world) has a pristine ZR1, still with plastic on the seats in the museum. Mr. Barber is an avid Lotus fan (also several Lotus race cars among the vast 2 wheel collection) and the ZR1 was given to him by either Lotus or GM and I think it has almost zero miles.

 

[Hack]

From the engine swaps form at http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?40,2560735,page=3 . He appears to be referencing the (previous) LLT V6.



Or from what I could quickly find in an older Chevy Power book, a little over an inch taller than a Mark IV BBC from pan to top of stock air cleaner.

It's going to be relatively tall due to the 60° bank to bank angle.


Norm

I agree that the V6 has extra height due to the tighter V angle. I would assume the difference is very minor, though. Heck, the 4 cylinder is DOHC and it is vertical with no angle on the cylinders. GM didn't tack a huge hood scoop on the Camaros that were equipped with the 4 cylinder DOHC in order to clear the MASSIVE head.

My point is that the V6 fits in the Camaro and a V8 DOHC is not going to be taller than the V6 DOHC. I assumed Roy didn't know what the actual difference was and that he was just quoting what the Chevy guys always say as their standard argument in pushrod vs. DOHC debates.

 

[J_Maher_AMG]

I don't see 13/14 GT500's going in the $30's anytime soon. I haven't really looked as much since I bought a '15 GT and had it supercharged. Last one I did look at had 3K miles and 3 past owners.......seems the idea of owning one might be more exciting than the reality. As I have found with my s'charged GT, the performance potential is not very user-friendly on the street.....try to have any fun and you're at "go to jail" speed in a heartbeat. That being said, I would pass on a ZL1 at half the price.......they can keep them.

I agree that the V6 has extra height due to the tighter V angle. I would assume the difference is very minor, though. Heck, the 4 cylinder is DOHC and it is vertical with no angle on the cylinders. GM didn't tack a huge hood scoop on the Camaros that were equipped with the 4 cylinder DOHC in order to clear the MASSIVE head.

My point is that the V6 fits in the Camaro and a V8 DOHC is not going to be taller than the V6 DOHC. I assumed Roy didn't know what the actual difference was and that he was just quoting what the Chevy guys always say as their standard argument in pushrod vs. DOHC debates.

It is moreso a "if it isn't appropriate for the Vette, then we aren't doing it." All of their engines are are designed with the Corvette in mind, and then the Camaro gets the engine as well. They'll never design something specific for the Camaro if it can't be used in the Vette as well, they just don't operate that way.

 

[J_Maher_AMG]

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. And Camaros, Mustangs, and Challengers share engines with trucks if you haven't noticed.

I would believe he moreso means that an engine that is geared towards low-rpm torque is more apt for truck applications than one that is geared towards higher rpm power.

 

[H6G]

I believe it was assembled by Mercury Marine in Oklahoma. Designed by Lotus, but GM was obsessed with keeping the bore spacing the same as their gen 1 small blocks, which limited power.

I used to own one, it was an incredible engine.

I could be wrong..... I believe that Lotus were only designing the heads for ZR1.

 

[H6G]

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. And Camaros, Mustangs, and Challengers share engines with trucks if you haven't noticed.

That's all good and well..... Until you start to experience 'valve float' with your pushrod engine.

 

[roygriffin2020]

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. And Camaros, Mustangs, and Challengers share engines with trucks if you haven't noticed.

Yes, the F150 has a Mustang engine. The 5.0...duh

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