Why doesn't Ford offer the premium package on V6?

[04DarkShadowGT]

And yet they drop a 325 HP twin-turbo V6 into the Fusion for 2017 (Fusion Sport) or offer a Fusion Platinum for 37K? They could take both that engine and interior and drop into V6 Mustang. I wanted the V6 and the upgraded interior. They make you choose one or the other. Ford, if you are reading, this - You suck on this one.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-sho...a27866/2017-ford-fusion-sport-debuts-detroit/

Apples and oranges imo

The Twin Turbo V6 is a high end engine. the base V6 is not. Sure a twin turbo V6 may be cool in a mustang, but it would put you too close to the power and cost of a GT.

As far as reliability, I have a 13 Escape with the 1.6L Ecoboost. I drive it for work and I was nervous about going the Ecoboost route, but it has been awesome for me. It has over 94,000 miles and has had a grand total of $250 in maintenance outside of regular oil changes, etc. Not too bad given it is a first year of a new model too. I have averaged 28mpg combined since I bought it with 18,000 miles.

Sponsored

 

[HoosierDaddy]

Ford should offer the premium package on the V6. It seems short minded on Ford's part not to offer it. Just my 2 cents.

It makes sense. They want to eliminate the V6 but they still sell them to throw a bone to those who won't buy an EB.

So they just make them less desirable each year until those people give in and buy an EB or are so few they would lose money anyway with all the fixed costs of any model being distributed among so few sales. This year's move in that direction was to eliminate the 051 package for coupes.

 

[wildsailor]

And yet they drop a 325 HP twin-turbo V6 into the Fusion for 2017 (Fusion Sport) or offer a Fusion Platinum for 37K? They could take both that engine and interior and drop into V6 Mustang. I wanted the V6 and the upgraded interior. They make you choose one or the other. Ford, if you are reading, this - You suck on this one.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-sho...a27866/2017-ford-fusion-sport-debuts-detroit/

Why would you want to spend that kind of money on a Fusion Sport? Okay, yes, it has a 2.7L Ecoboost V6 and AWD but...you could have a Mustang GT instead for the money.

 

[Bullitt]

Your opinion vs. Ford Engineering.....Hmmmm, this is a tough one. I mean Ford has spent hundreds of millions of dollars and there are literally millions of Eco's on the road as we speak. Do you have any proof that Eco's have more problems that NA Ford engines? Any carbon deposits widely reported? Again, there are millions of Eco's on the road since 2009 so where are the facts to back up you assumptions?

You love the ecoboost, I get it. You've been very vocal about that in the past. Carbon deposits happen with all cars with strictly direct injection. Even some people with ecoboost mustangs have already started to notice carbon buildup. Their solution is to run a catch can which the millions of ecoboost owners that know nothing about the technology will never do.

You act like Ford has always made a 100% bulletproof reliable car. Sorry, they're not at the top of consumer reports or any other reliability ranking and they never have been. I love the Mustang, and in V8 and V6 applications they've been very reliable, but the same can't be said for other Ford products. The "millions" of Fiestas and Focuses out there are riddled with "automated manual" automatic transmission issues and other quality issues. Just one example of a poor engineering choice the almighty Ford engineers have made in the past.

 

[perfweld]

Why would you want to spend that kind of money on a Fusion Sport? Okay, yes, it has a 2.7L Ecoboost V6 and AWD but...you could have a Mustang GT instead for the money.

Im thinking about buying a Fusion to add to the fleet. I have a mustang, need a daily driver for work. Lots of people have family's, and like cars as well. I love my mustang, but its not a good daily driver for everyone's situation.

 

[Bullitt]

Ecoboost has Less moving parts than any V engine, Quite literally half the cams, timing chains, timing chain tensioners timing gears and head gaskets, It has 1/3 less pistons, rods, valves, piston rings injectors, etc.

The turbo is a very simple journal bearing unit, turbine and compressor bolted to a shaft, literally one moving part.

There is almost no evidence of the HPFP or DI system having any sort of endemic weakness or flaw in any of the previous ecoboost motors and the 2.3 Unit is a more robust 4 lobe design compared to the 3 lobe used in the smaller EB motors

The only thing you may have a point on is oil coaking on the intake valves, a problem all DI engines have, NA or Turbo.

It is really a myth that turbo engines require more maintenance than an NA engine, the real issue is they are less tolerant of neglect than an NA engine due to the turbos needing a clean oil supply with a good additive package to avoid thermal breakdown in the higher temperatures the turbo sees. Old oil is damaging your much larger rod, crank and cam bearings that are turning 7000 rpm at redline at 180-200 Degrees F. It will annihilate a turbo bearing doing 200,000 rpm at 250 degrees.

TLDR, if your idea of excessive maintenance is following the manufacturer recommendations, Stick to NA and your engine might see 100k, it won't see 200, If like most people who care about their cars, the thought of doing 10k on oil makes you cringe no matter what they say, both engines will live a nice long time.

That neglect you speak of is the critical thing. I'm not talking about us enthusiasts that take interest in our car's well being. The casual user won't use additives, won't wait till the oil is warm to go into boost, and probably won't do oil changes right on the dot either. Those ecoboost engines are the one I feel could have problems in the long run.

All of this is true.

The coking on the valves (most of it is actually fuel) will be fixed once PFI+DI systems start becoming more common, as the detergents in fuel passing over the valves will keep them clean. The Ford EB engines suffer from this with much less severity than a lot of the other early DI adopters (BMW, VW etc.). That is mostly due to calibration.

True, and I'm excited for Ford to introduce PFI+DI as it will solve all the DI problems. I just wish them (and other companies) would have done that from the very beginning or switched way sooner than MY2018 or whenever they decide to finally implement it.

 

[stang77]

I agree with Maggneto. The EB engine has been around for years. Many people are driving them trouble free too. Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't this Mustang EB engine essentially the same that was in the Mazdaspeed 3? My point is that as for now it is premature for any of us to start predicting reliability for it. People that own this car just need to be aware of the "issues". Issues meaning LSPI. Don't be stupid when driving.

 

[Bullitt]

I agree with Maggneto. The EB engine has been around for years. Many people are driving them trouble free too. Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't this Mustang EB engine essentially the same that was in the Mazdaspeed 3? My point is that as for now it is premature for any of us to start predicting reliability for it. People that own this car just need to be aware of the "issues". Issues meaning LSPI. Don't be stupid when driving.

It is basically the same as the Mazdaspeed engine which hasn't had a flawless reliability record either. Like I said before, I'm not referring to us enthusiasts, but the non-enthusiasts that have never even heard of LSPI, and don't even understand what the turbo under their hoods does. Those people will drive their ecoboosts in that "stupid" manner and those will be the main ones to have issues. That's the only point I'm trying to make. Unfortunately, that group is way larger than the enthusiast group that know how to care for a turbo DI engine properly.

 

[wildsailor]

Im thinking about buying a Fusion to add to the fleet. I have a mustang, need a daily driver for work. Lots of people have family's, and like cars as well. I love my mustang, but its not a good daily driver for everyone's situation.

I actually did not mean that the Fusion is a car 'less than' a Mustang. I like the Fusion and would like Ford to actually make a 4-door based on the Mustang platform. The Fusion Sport comes very close. However, if one is shopping Mustangs then the 40k Fusion Sport is not really in the field and that is what I was trying to say. For 40k you can get a GT Mustang well appointed.

My overall point though was that the poster I responded to was making the argument that he cannot get the 2.7 Ecoboost in the Mustang and would have to choose a Fusion. That makes me scratch my head because if you want a Mustang you pick the package and go. I have never bought a powertrain and then figured out what car came with it let alone complain about it.

I have the 2004 40th Anniversary V6 Mustang and it is a very nice car. The 2015+ 3.7 is a very nice car as well but...if you want the premium you need to make a choice. I went 2.3L EB and others went 5.0L V8. While the 5.0L is great, this EB is the most powerful Mustang I have ever owned. Yup, the 5.0L is more powerful but that is not the point...of the (2) GT's I have owned this would easily leave them behind. It would leave the 2004 V6 behind as well, but in the end who cares...I have both right now.

As for the Mustang and family compromises...yup, I consider mine a 2-seater and that makes my life a bit difficult at times. My wife wants me to trade it in on a new F150 (my 17 year old truck is starting to strain a bit) and that may be the next move...but I will hold out as long as possible!

 

[stang77]

It is basically the same as the Mazdaspeed engine which hasn't had a flawless reliability record either. Like I said before, I'm not referring to us enthusiasts, but the non-enthusiasts that have never even heard of LSPI, and don't even understand what the turbo under their hoods does. Those people will drive their ecoboosts in that "stupid" manner and those will be the main ones to have issues. That's the only point I'm trying to make. Unfortunately, that group is way larger than the enthusiast group that know how to care for a turbo DI engine properly.

Agreed. Many folks have no clue or even heard of LSPI.

 

[Spartan]

Ford should offer the premium package on the V6. It seems short minded on Ford's part not to offer it. Just my 2 cents.

It's a shame...completely stupid move on Ford's part. They just want people buying the EB.

 

[Maggneto]

You love the ecoboost, I get it. You've been very vocal about that in the past. Carbon deposits happen with all cars with strictly direct injection. Even some people with ecoboost mustangs have already started to notice carbon buildup. Their solution is to run a catch can which the millions of ecoboost owners that know nothing about the technology will never do.

You act like Ford has always made a 100% bulletproof reliable car. Sorry, they're not at the top of consumer reports or any other reliability ranking and they never have been. I love the Mustang, and in V8 and V6 applications they've been very reliable, but the same can't be said for other Ford products. The "millions" of Fiestas and Focuses out there are riddled with "automated manual" automatic transmission issues and other quality issues. Just one example of a poor engineering choice the almighty Ford engineers have made in the past.

Where is the physical proof that carbon buildup is a huge problem in the Ecoboost, and that a catch can will resolve the problem? I don't love Ford or any car manufacturer, I just require proof of the problem rather than someone's opinion. In order to claim the Ecoboost engine is problematic one must have some proof that the Ecoboost engine is actually problematic.

I am not blindly defending Ford because I love Ford I promise you. There are known issues with GDI engine technology but I have not seen any evidence that the problem is widespread or problematic in the 2.3.

 

[QRK]

I too was initially surprised to find out that they positioned the V6 as more of a base application destined for the rental fleet, but it seems their gamble on that strategy and pushing the EB is paying off.

I only know one person that owns a V6 S550 and he said he bought it over the EB because he didn't like the idea of having a 4-cyl Mustang, even if it makes more power (which is similar to how I've always felt about V6 'Stangs over V8, but that's besides the point). I feel like he's an exception because the vast majority of non-GT (and non-rental) Mustangs I see are EB. People don't seem to mind having a 4-cyl Mustang when it has more power and they have more options to choose from.

Now, I'm very interested to see how Chevy's more traditional positioning of the V6 Camaro ahead of the 4-cyl plays out compared to Ford's strategy, especially since you can get mostly the same options on both.

 

[stang77]

I too was initially surprised to find out that they positioned the V6 as more of a base application destined for the rental fleet, but it seems their gamble on that strategy and pushing the EB is paying off.

I only know one person that owns a V6 S550 and he said he bought it over the EB because he didn't like the idea of having a 4-cyl Mustang, even if it makes more power (which is similar to how I've always felt about V6 'Stangs over V8, but that's besides the point). I feel like he's an exception because the vast majority of non-GT (and non-rental) Mustangs I see are EB. People don't seem to mind having a 4-cyl Mustang when it has more power and they have more options to choose from.

Now, I'm very interested to see how Chevy's more traditional positioning of the V6 Camaro ahead of the 4-cyl plays out compared to Ford's strategy, especially since you can get mostly the same options on both.

It would also be interesting to see if Ford gives the EB engine a power bump to keep pace with the V6 Camaro.

 

[QRK]

It would also be interesting to see if Ford gives the EB engine a power bump to keep pace with the V6 Camaro.

I gotta think that is on the to-do list for 2018. Ford would be silly to not give it at least 335-345hp.

Sponsored