GT + Upgrades vs. GT350(R)

[Teezlr]

Completely agree but I do think that the non-PP chassis deserves some minor upgrades. For example, when turning, I find that there's way too much weight that gets shifted to the outside rear wheel. Past the inside apex, anything more than slight throttle causes oversteer.



This is what I came here to hear. I'll have to find a way to drive one to see if I like it. I'm sure there are some driving schools that offer it as an option.



Like legally? I'm surprised I missed that part. I'll google it. I figure I got my mustang before the "price adjustments" due to the USDCAD. Things have calmed down a bit from 1.47 (currently 1.2575) - the 2017s should be a little less pricy.



Out of curiosity, which one were you thinking about getting? I figure the Ford Motorsports offerings offer just under 700HP because of the transmission's limits. I was a little interested in the less boosted versions just to get a little bit of earlier torque.

Thanks again everyone.

I was looking at the Whipple but that seems like an a bit much since someone with just the Ford supercharger is running 10s at 130+ mph...plenty fast!

But like I said, if I can keep from buying any parts for the car and just save the difference for an upgraded car(c7 z06, GT350, GTR) instead of parts(10k-20k) I would prefer to do that... something that holds it value a bit more wouldn't be a bad idea... oh and get one that is 6 months old from the original owner to keep from that depreciation hit.

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[rfcs550]

I've owned the 2015 PT S550 GT. The GT350 trak pak I own now is night and day a better performance car than the GT. It's obvious that the magneride suspension in the Shelby and the higher rpm of the vodoo are significant improvements over the GT. Having said that the GT is a much better daily driver. I would save money to buy the Shelby if you can and not make costly mods to the base GT that you will never recuperate.

 

[Hack]

I've owned the 2015 PT S550 GT. The GT350 trak pak I own now is night and day a better performance car than the GT. It's obvious that the magneride suspension in the Shelby and the higher rpm of the vodoo are significant improvements over the GT. Having said that the GT is a much better daily driver. I would save money to buy the Shelby if you can and not make costly mods to the base GT that you will never recuperate.

I think the GT350 is a better daily driver than my 2015 GT was. Just the heated and cooled seats are a big improvement. The ride is a lot better and the body doesn't wallow around. The exhaust sound makes me turn down the stereo. :hail:

 

[Norm Peterson]

I know enough about driving that the stock suspension on the car won't keep balance under any kind of hard braking or acceleration. (Anyone test this? I can barely hold half a G until the car goes wobbly) - Sudden bumps like rocks or uneven roads are particularly scary at speed.

Try to "smooth out" your steering and pedal inputs a bit, and focus on where you want the car to go rather than on its body motions while you're doing whatever. Nose dive under hard braking should be far more noticed than cornering roll (and I think that your signal to investigate stiffer springs should be when nose dive becomes truly objectionable rather than out of any intellectual desire to reduce roll). Try following a "racing line" while staying completely within your lane through the curves on the street - use most of the available lane width rather than blindly follow its mid-width like almost every street-only driver does.

Most cars do need at least better damping and a better wheel & tire package for much past introductory track time, though a new car with only a few miles on it should be more composed at 0.5g than I'm reading from your description. I know my (ancient-tech) '08 GT was better than that with no more than a little tire pressure tuning for its 235/50-18 tires. With little more than a medium-wide set of wheels (18x9.5) and modest tires (255/45), aftermarket sta-bars and Koni yellows, it's been composed enough on track to elicit specific comments from instructors and track corner workers to that effect. Your S550 should be better still, given comparable to slightly better upgrades from stock.


Norm

 

[F0J]

... Ask away! I have a tread documenting my progress on my weight reduction quest if your interested.

Yes! Please share the link.

... oh and get one that is 6 months old from the original owner to keep from that depreciation hit.

Exactly. I'm keeping an eye out for dealer buybacks etc.

Try to "smooth out" your steering and pedal inputs a bit, and focus on where you want the car to go rather than on its body motions while you're doing whatever. Nose dive under hard braking should be far more noticed than cornering roll (and I think that your signal to investigate stiffer springs should be when nose dive becomes truly objectionable rather than out of any intellectual desire to reduce roll). Try following a "racing line" while staying completely within your lane through the curves on the street - use most of the available lane width rather than blindly follow its mid-width like almost every street-only driver does.

Most cars do need at least better damping and a better wheel & tire package for much past introductory track time, though a new car with only a few miles on it should be more composed at 0.5g than I'm reading from your description. I know my (ancient-tech) '08 GT was better than that with no more than a little tire pressure tuning for its 235/50-18 tires. With little more than a medium-wide set of wheels (18x9.5) and modest tires (255/45), aftermarket sta-bars and Koni yellows, it's been composed enough on track to elicit specific comments from instructors and track corner workers to that effect. Your S550 should be better still, given comparable to slightly better upgrades from stock.


Norm

Thanks for the feedback. Keep in mind that we're talking about the base suspension for the Mustang and that I've only driven it on empty highways. During braking, the car does a decent job telling me if I'm going to understeer. In this car, I aim for a slightly later inside apex. As I turn-in, it feels like all of the weight shifts to the outside rear wheel when it should, instead, load both outside wheels. It feels intentional. Then on turn-out and exit, I'm trying *extra* hard not to oversteer because the slightest throttle will break traction on the rear outside wheel. But heck, everything after braking is kind of a crapshoot because the balance of the car is all over the place under all but the very slightest throttle. I'm guessing the stock suspension (and 2nd gear) are tuned to do 0-60 as fast as possible instead of carrying speed out of a turn. Basically a softcore drag setup. Much more pronounced in hairpin like turns.

And yes, I think those "basic" upgrades would do wonders to the car. Enkei makes a 18x10.5 that I'm considering putting in the rear and then maybe 18x10 in the front. Might be too much tire. For the suspension, Ford Performance seems to have something that offers good value. Might opt for a different spring though. I need to do much more research.

We're getting warmer days here and I haven't yet lowered the PSI. Driving yesterday and they got to 39-40PSI and that's way too high. Though it gives me a chance to lower the limits of the car to see how it behaves. Interesting that the driver side tires run a little hotter. This is another hypothesis of mine that the suspension is geared for two drivers ie. cruising around, vs. one driver for the track. Which makes sense but it isn't "ideal" for the track.

 

[F0J]

This is another hypothesis of mine that the suspension is geared for two drivers ie. cruising around, vs. one driver for the track. Which makes sense but it isn't "ideal" for the track.

That or I need to lose weight

 

[F0J]

... Enkei makes a 18x10.5 that I'm considering putting in the rear and then maybe 18x10 in the front ...

I was wrong on this. Don't want to mislead.

(Wrong center bore - assumed the GT350R-C shared the same wheel specs)

 

[Guard5.0]

GT owners - a decent to better set of coilovers with some knowledgable suspension tuning help will transform your car. Stock my PP was a decent (only decent) handler till I added power. Then it was poor unless it was going in a straight line. I've experimented some but my current combo is really tight. It no longer overpowers the suspension and feels planted powering out of corners. If nothing else, even if you're not adding power I'm sure a good matched coilover system would make you smile on a road course (as long as you replace the Pirellis)

 

[Hack]

During braking, the car does a decent job telling me if I'm going to understeer.

When you go to a high performance driving school, the instructors will help you with information about things such as using the braking zones and how to turn in to corners. At the simplest level - you don't want to turn and brake at the same time.

 

[F0J]

GT owners - a decent to better set of coilovers with some knowledgable suspension tuning help will transform your car. Stock my PP was a decent (only decent) handler till I added power. Then it was poor unless it was going in a straight line. I've experimented some but my current combo is really tight. It no longer overpowers the suspension and feels planted powering out of corners. If nothing else, even if you're not adding power I'm sure a good matched coilover system would make you smile on a road course (as long as you replace the Pirellis)

Thanks!

When you go to a high performance driving school, the instructors will help you with information about things such as using the braking zones and how to turn in to corners. At the simplest level - you don't want to turn and brake at the same time.

This I know. To clarify, I was referring to carrying too much speed after braking.

I don't mean to steer the discussion towards my (in)ability to drive the car. I shared my thoughts because I'm looking for other people, like Guard5.0, that have successfully tuned their cars to consistently exit a turn with some speed.

Let's say this, I know enough about "tracking" that the current setup, GT non-PP, does not meet my expectations regarding handling. I'm not bringing my car to the track until I remedy this problem and I'd rather drop my car at some mechanic during the winter and sort out the whole thing than slowly upgrade bit by bit.

The "Net Price" of the GT350 that I would buy is 83,833CAD (yellow, track pack) so the difference between that and my car is about 42,000CAD.

This is my family's third car (2014 Mazda6, 2003 Jetta wagon) so I'm not very worried about insurance payout in the case of a crash. Or if the handling will be so harsh that I'll break eggs when I go on a grocery run. I'm looking for a track car that I can drive to the track.

I *really* appreciate any and all feedback. This is *alot* of money for me and I'm hoping to do it right.

 

[Norm Peterson]

I don't mean to steer the discussion towards my (in)ability to drive the car. I shared my thoughts because I'm looking for other people, like Guard5.0, that have successfully tuned their cars to consistently exit a turn with some speed.

Let's say this, I know enough about "tracking" that the current setup, GT non-PP, does not meet my expectations regarding handling. I'm not bringing my car to the track until I remedy this problem and I'd rather drop my car at some mechanic during the winter and sort out the whole thing than slowly upgrade bit by bit.

The advantage in getting it all done at once is that it IS all done at once.

The disadvantage is that when it's all done that way, it may still not be quite 'right' for you. You won't necessarily know going in what that is or what it'll take to get there. Been there (recently, again, even), so I'll suggest settling on wheels (width, more than diameter) and tires first, and getting shocks, struts, and sta-bars that are adjustable. After that, you shouldn't need much more knowledge than how to turn a wrench to make things fit you better.


Norm

 

[F0J]

... so I'll suggest settling on wheels (width, more than diameter) and tires first, and getting shocks, struts, and sta-bars that are adjustable ...

Which I think can be done relatively cheaply compared to the cost of a GT350, even when you factor all the indirect costs. Going the custom/adjustable route will also be more fun. I think I have my answer. Thanks for the input everyone.

 

[Guard5.0]

Thanks!



This I know. To clarify, I was referring to carrying too much speed after braking.

I don't mean to steer the discussion towards my (in)ability to drive the car. I shared my thoughts because I'm looking for other people, like Guard5.0, that have successfully tuned their cars to consistently exit a turn with some speed.

Let's say this, I know enough about "tracking" that the current setup, GT non-PP, does not meet my expectations regarding handling. I'm not bringing my car to the track until I remedy this problem and I'd rather drop my car at some mechanic during the winter and sort out the whole thing than slowly upgrade bit by bit.

The "Net Price" of the GT350 that I would buy is 83,833CAD (yellow, track pack) so the difference between that and my car is about 42,000CAD.

This is my family's third car (2014 Mazda6, 2003 Jetta wagon) so I'm not very worried about insurance payout in the case of a crash. Or if the handling will be so harsh that I'll break eggs when I go on a grocery run. I'm looking for a track car that I can drive to the track.

I *really* appreciate any and all feedback. This is *alot* of money for me and I'm hoping to do it right.

Summoning apex15stangPP. This is probably the guy you need to speak to. He has the same coilover system and a lot of the accoutrements (BMR, Steeda, etc.) that I do only his is naturally aspirated and by all accounts a bear on the west coast autocross scene. This would translate well to road courses with some fine tuning. Like anything else on a car you can get crazy here and easily spend 5 figures (Cortex, Penske, etc.) but then you'd have an amazing suspension under a heavy car with moderate power. You can get Ridetech's, KW's, Roush, etc. for around $2500 in what I would call the "good and affordable" category and use extra money for tires, carbon fiber bits, horsepower, brakes and likely run comparable times which you probably already know. The one thing I wouldn't entertain again (I knew this but wanted the stance while waiting for decent dampers) is lowering springs on stock dampers. As I expected mine didn't work well together but hey... it looks good! Don't get me wrong, Eibach, Steeda etc. make nice stuff, just make sure they're balanced with a good set of aftermarket dampers so they can work together.

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