ZL1 1LE

[thePill]

Once again. The Camaro is perfectly fine rigidity wise and handles just fine.

If you think just throwing more metal at something makes it better, you have no idea how engineering works.

But since you seem to think using light weight metals and materials makes a car inferior, you must think cars like McLaren and Ferrari (and Ford F150) are flimsy as hell..?

Also, Convertibles from every brand (including the Ford Mustang) generally need extra reinforcement in the frame to make up for whats now missing up top. Not sure why you think that that is a smoking gun somehow...



Edit: I'd like to add that while I do know you are rather knowledgeable on the Mustang I just don't get the rather interesting attempts to discredit what is also a well performing car such as the Camaro. At least when it comes to overall performance. Talk crap about the looks and the problem with them overpricing the car from the start. That's fine. Looks are subjective while the pricing of the car is, agreeably, a big fail when it comes to the base price (and a few overpriced options thrown in). There's a reason they have to keep offering $1000 off MSRP and more discounts... You're obviously doing something wrong when a car (Challenger) that is a generation behind is starting to outsell your car.

I get that people on here prefer the Mustang. It's a Mustang forum. If anything, you are 100% right that sales are crap for the Camaro. Also, the constant delays of the automatic ZL1 aren't helping. Almost everyone who wants a ZL1 and first put in an order back in November and earlier are STILL waiting for their A10 order to go through. I know two people that have gotten one and pretty much everyone else keeps having their order moved back and delayed due to... who knows what.

I also agree that the reason for this (first paragraph in edit) is that the Engineering/Design team was beyond lazy when it came to designing the next gen Camaro as far as looks go. If anything, GM and the Camaro team got a strong dose of reality this generation. They are finding out that just making a car that can do a quarter mile faster than it's competitor most of the time depending on who's driving isn't going to sell cars that are over priced and it's time to give up on the sinking ship that was the previous design that sold well because of a Transformers movie.

No, the 6th Gen Camaro's rigidity IS NOT fine. Chevy refuses to release chassis info but we know better. The only reason Chevy withheld that info was due to the ATS Alpha's structure performance. Trust me, how else would tgePill know exactly where and what weights are moving in and out unless he had chassis info.

I challenge GM to release the structural info for the Alpha Camaro... THEY WILL NOT. Hard numbers prove the Camaro's Alpha design is very, very flawed.

It IS NOT the same Alpha, it only has 3/4rds of the rigidity the ATS and Mustang have (29,000-32,000). In fact, it's slightly more rigid than the S197 :(

Another huge issue is airflow... we have already seen the extent both ZL1 and Motorsport versions needed to change in order to breathe right.

Seek out pics of a naked 6th Gen and examine the area between the B and C pillars. We haven't seen metal removal that bad since the late 60's. Yes, sorry to say but the platform is floppy.

Sponsored

 

[thePill]

...put it this way, IF the 6th Gens rigidity was "fine" they wouldn't have added 85+lbs of ZL1/Convertible Sub-Frame Reinforcement to the 1LE.

If the ZL1 didn't require better tire, Chevy wouldn't be 1-Uping themselves with a proper equip' ZL1LE would they?

If cooling was fine, the ZL1 would need 11 coolers and the GT4 wouldn't need to remove the bumper to promote better cooling.


Just a thought...

 

[bluebeastsrt]

If anything, GM and the Camaro team got a strong dose of reality this generation. They are finding out that just making a car that can do a quarter mile faster than it's competitor most of the time depending on who's driving isn't going to sell cars that are over priced and it's time to give up on the sinking ship that was the previous design that sold well because of a Transformers movie.

You'd think they would have learned that lesson back in 2002.

 

[legendary mustang]

You'd think they would have learned that lesson back in 2002.

the Garbage Motor Company is not capable of learning anything.their new trucks some of them are up to 12K off.:ford:
:lol::cheers:

 

[Strokerswild]

You'd think they would have learned that lesson back in 2002.

And a few other times prior.

 

[Childs Play]

You'd think they would have learned that lesson back in 2002.

And you'd also think in 2017 people wouldn't put ketchup on a steak. Yet here we are...

I have a feeling they're going to revamp the front and rear entirely for the refresh... Kinda like how the Charger changed dramatically up front in 2015. I personally don't mind the looks though, but I'm definitely tired of retro.
The biggest complaint I have is the weird extra line they added on the rear bumper and the location of the badge. Oh, and how the screen tilts slightly down, although that's done to help with glare. Still annoys me with my OCD...

 

[bluebeastsrt]

The entire 6th gen has been a disaster to me. I owned a 5th gen. Really liked the styling of the 10-13 Camaro. Every thing they have done to the exterior since then has made the car uglier! The styling looks more import to me then American Muscle. Which is what I think they are still shooting for?:shrug: Then there is the horrible cabin. I traded the Camaro. Because I couldn't stand being couped up in a car that cost 46 grand. I also hated holding my breath when ever I changed lanes or backed up. Due to the non existent visibility. The Camaro is a very flawed car. People could live with a few flaws if it wasn't sooooo expensive. The performance is there. GM needs to bring the rest of the car up to the level of performance then they have a stunner. As long as they keep listening to the 10 or 12 nitwits over on C6G that call it a 4 door Corvette. Their doomed!

 

[Childs Play]

The entire 6th gen has been a disaster to me. I owned a 5th gen. Really liked the styling of the 10-13 Camaro. Every thing they have done to the exterior since then has made the car uglier! The styling looks more import to me then American Muscle. Which is what I think they are still shooting for?:shrug: Then there is the horrible cabin. I traded the Camaro. Because I couldn't stand being couped up in a car that cost 46 grand. I also hated holding my breath when ever I changed lanes or backed up. Due to the non existent visibility. The Camaro is a very flawed car. People could live with a few flaws if it wasn't sooooo expensive. The performance is there. GM needs to bring the rest of the car up to the level of performance then they have a stunner. As long as they keep listening to the 10 or 12 nitwits over on C6G that call it a 4 door Corvette. Their doomed!

Oh man... I loved both of the 2012's I owned. I sold the second one to buy a house and was planning on getting another one once I was all settled in. And then the refresh happened...
I was happy that there was a refresh coming. And then the reveal came, and they rotated the car around to the back side, and I saw this...

I died a little inside...

That line through the plate hurt my brain. Refused to buy another 5th gen after that. And then they fixed that part at least in the 6th gen but unfortunately the oil price collapse has stopped me from buying another sports car of any brand at the moment.

Also I know exactly how you felt about those lane changes. lol

The ZL1 was definitely a lot of fun however even with its visibility issues.

 

[Strokerswild]

And you'd also think in 2017 people wouldn't put ketchup on a steak. Yet here we are...

Mmmmm, ketchup on steak. :cheers:

 

[legendary mustang]

Mmmmm, ketchup on steak. :cheers:

no,no.no.A1 bold and spicy steak sauce.:cheers:

 

[EcoVert]

You'd think they would have learned that lesson back in 2002.

The entire 6th gen has been a disaster to me. I owned a 5th gen. Really liked the styling of the 10-13 Camaro. As long as they keep listening to the 10 or 12 nitwits over on C6G that call it a 4 door Corvette. Their doomed!

Hay if GM is listening that's a good ideal to save money and make maximum profit and have there 4 door corvette just stick camaro badges on a ats and sell them at chevy dealers. :lol::lol::lol:

 

[Childs Play]

No, the 6th Gen Camaro's rigidity IS NOT fine. Chevy refuses to release chassis info but we know better. The only reason Chevy withheld that info was due to the ATS Alpha's structure performance. Trust me, how else would tgePill know exactly where and what weights are moving in and out unless he had chassis info.

I challenge GM to release the structural info for the Alpha Camaro... THEY WILL NOT. Hard numbers prove the Camaro's Alpha design is very, very flawed.

It IS NOT the same Alpha, it only has 3/4rds of the rigidity the ATS and Mustang have (29,000-32,000). In fact, it's slightly more rigid than the S197 :(

Another huge issue is airflow... we have already seen the extent both ZL1 and Motorsport versions needed to change in order to breathe right.

Seek out pics of a naked 6th Gen and examine the area between the B and C pillars. We haven't seen metal removal that bad since the late 60's. Yes, sorry to say but the platform is floppy.

Awww.... Look at you.

Trying to to play engineer and argue with a real one.

So cute. ;)

While GM has been known to overstate things in the past, I'm going to go with Chevy's numbers from actual engineers showing the 6th gen Camaro's frame is 28% stiffer than the previous gen car over some guy who makes outrageous claims on the internet and has no concept of metal yield strengths or statics and dynamics.

 

[Childs Play]

Hay if GM is listening that's a good ideal to save money and make maximum profit and have there 4 door corvette just stick camaro badges on a ats and sell them at chevy dealers. :lol::lol::lol:

I think he meant 4 seat corvette.

However the ATS-V is a fun car. Just saying...

 

[02gtnh]

...put it this way, IF the 6th Gens rigidity was "fine" they wouldn't have added 85+lbs of ZL1/Convertible Sub-Frame Reinforcement to the 1LE.

If the ZL1 didn't require better tire, Chevy wouldn't be 1-Uping themselves with a proper equip' ZL1LE would they?

If cooling was fine, the ZL1 would need 11 coolers and the GT4 wouldn't need to remove the bumper to promote better cooling.


Just a thought...

I see your making stuff up again. Try using some facts as that carries more weight.:headbonk:

 

[Childs Play]

...put it this way, IF the 6th Gens rigidity was "fine" they wouldn't have added 85+lbs of ZL1/Convertible Sub-Frame Reinforcement to the 1LE.

If the ZL1 didn't require better tire, Chevy wouldn't be 1-Uping themselves with a proper equip' ZL1LE would they?

If cooling was fine, the ZL1 would need 11 coolers and the GT4 wouldn't need to remove the bumper to promote better cooling.


Just a thought...

How dare they put a better performance tire on a car specked out to be on the track more than the one with a slightly less performance tire meant more for daily cruising and occasional track use...

Also, how dare they use coolers to cool an engine and other parts of the drive train. It should just overheat like the Z06 and GT350 without the track pack since thepill knows way more about engineering without a degree in it than the Camaro engineers that designed the car.

I also find it hilarious that you think a non-street legal race car designed specifically for track use (GT4) wouldn't have a different cooling/air routing set up than a street legal car. Hell with that mentality we shouldn't have A/C, doors, passenger seats, air bags, or break lights in street legal vehicles. :shrug:

Sponsored