ZL1 1LE

[richtor]

Where's the tried and failed video?

Where's the tried and failed c7z video? Do you really think gm would market their vids based on actual oem capabilities?

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[Childs Play]

Where's the tried and failed c7z video? Do you really think gm would market their vids based on actual oem capabilities?

I'd change the subject too to a different model car if I didn't have a point or proof of what I was ranting about. The Camaro performs just fine. Just because you can't drive the car like the guy who does it for a living doesn't mean jack. I'm sorry that the car ran a fast lap on dry/performance tires PARTIALLY IN THE RAIN and that hurts your ego for whatever reason...

I'm guessing you're the same guy who cried about Chevy not releasing M6 times at the ring compared to A10 times like that's relevant as well. :lol:

Go back to the drawing board on your angry rant that you can't prove anything about bud.

I'm sorry that a car you don't like beat the one you do on a wet lap with dry racing tires...

Here's an idea. Buy the car you want and drive it how you want. I bought the ZL1 last gen because I liked it, not because it was the fastest thing out there from the factory. And I definitely didn't buy it because it had superior visibility compared to the competition...

If I wanted to do that I would have bought the GT500 which was also a fantastic vehicle. However I wanted an auto since I was going to be daily driving it in Houston with a bad back/leg.

 

[cobra1320]

Has anyone on this forum actually taken one of the cars to a track and competed against the other? Curious to know which ran faster in real life. My guess is the better driver would win no matter which car they were in.

 

[Childs Play]

Has anyone on this forum actually taken one of the cars to a track and competed against the other? Curious to know which ran faster in real life. My guess is the better driver would win no matter which car they were in.

Exactly...

Can talk about which car beat who in a magazine but 98% of the people on this forum (myself included) couldn't even get close to the times the cars put down. And when some couldn't match that time, they'd go complain on this forum that the car isn't doing what the magazine said it could do.

The car manufacturer's will always post the fastest time they were able to run. They aren't going to post a video showing the car messing up and running into the grass, or a lap with a missed shift that completely throws the car off, or one that is slower than the last. It's why they call them hero runs. Every manufacturer does the same thing...

It's like having a Prius put on a track driving all out, pedal to the floor with a performance vehicle tailing it barely even trying. Then, looking at the gas mileage of both cars afterwards and claiming that the performance car has better gas mileage based on that test in the real world as well...

 

[Hack]

It's like having a Prius put on a track driving all out, pedal to the floor with a performance vehicle tailing it barely even trying. Then, looking at the gas mileage of both cars afterwards and claiming that the performance car has better gas mileage based on that test in the real world as well...

HEY!! I really liked that test!!

 

[Childs Play]

HEY!! I really liked that test!!

So did I. That's why I referenced it. lol

[ame="[MEDIA=youtube]F04MXepYiBs[/MEDIA]"]

 

[Norm Peterson]

I'd be shocked if you or I personally could get within 5 seconds of any times the GT350R set on various tracks. Because generally no one who buys the car will be able to pull of the hero times.

It's not whether you or I or anybody else here could get within X number of seconds of a pro-driven Mustang/Camaro/whatever. It is about knowing that those X number of seconds was strictly due to differences in driver skill level, that those X number of seconds did not include the benefits of car preparation beyond production line stock that a different pro-driven car we might also be considering (or comparing against) did not. Or further beyond, as the case may be.

It's "level playing ground" thinking, and why there are different competition classes, perhaps best demonstrated by SCCA's Street/Street Touring/Street Prepared/Prepared/Modified preparation ladder for autocross.


Norm

 

[bluebeastsrt]

It's not whether you or I or anybody else here could get within X number of seconds of a pro-driven Mustang/Camaro/whatever. It is about knowing that those X number of seconds was strictly due to differences in driver skill level, that those X number of seconds did not include the benefits of car preparation beyond production line stock that a different pro-driven car we might also be considering (or comparing against) did not. Or further beyond, as the case may be.

It's "level playing ground" thinking, and why there are different competition classes, perhaps best demonstrated by SCCA's Street/Street Touring/Street Prepared/Prepared/Modified preparation ladder for autocross.


Norm

Agreed. When talking bone stock cars. There has got to be a level playing field. I'm not going to come right out and say GM's Z28 dyno numbers were juiced. Simply because The car could have been sitting on a dyno the shop set up to read high. Or was calibrated a little off. But same day testing shows the GT350R to be the faster car. Against the Z28.

 

[ZaneWayne]

Agreed. When talking bone stock cars. There has got to be a level playing field. I'm not going to come right out and say GM's Z28 dyno numbers were juiced. Simply because The car could have been sitting on a dyno the shop set up to read high. Or was calibrated a little off. But same day testing shows the GT350R to be the faster car. Against the Z28.

Because the R is simply the better car. No doubt.

 

[Childs Play]

It's not whether you or I or anybody else here could get within X number of seconds of a pro-driven Mustang/Camaro/whatever. It is about knowing that those X number of seconds was strictly due to differences in driver skill level, that those X number of seconds did not include the benefits of car preparation beyond production line stock that a different pro-driven car we might also be considering (or comparing against) did not. Or further beyond, as the case may be.

It's "level playing ground" thinking, and why there are different competition classes, perhaps best demonstrated by SCCA's Street/Street Touring/Street Prepared/Prepared/Modified preparation ladder for autocross.


Norm

I don't disagree with you. However it seems like a lot of people here (myself included in the past) are more worried about magazine numbers than real world performance.

Even if the Z/28 or ZL1 was bumped up to make Chevy look good, they are/were one hell of a car when they came out. I'm pretty sure every manufacturer has fudged a few things in their favor at some point. Just look at those stupid "Real People" commercials from Chevy right now.... Ugh... My eyes can't roll far enough when those come on. :doh:

How about Ford claiming the last gen GT500 could hit 200 mph? They weren't technically lying but the car struggled to get there unless conditions were perfect for it. Did anyone care? Besides some couch racers, no. It still made the ZL1 its bitch on the strip and was an awesome car.

Same thing with the Camaro.

Remember Tony Roma's "This thing will run 11's all day" comment? I do. I owned an auto ZL1 and the best I could get was 12.5 in the quarter. Mind you I'm not a great race driver and don't pretend to be. I was honestly impressed that the car put down that time with me behind the wheel. lol

But it definitely couldn't do 11s all day unless you had the perfect setup/weather/driver/tires/etc.

 

[02gtnh]

Agreed. When talking bone stock cars. There has got to be a level playing field. I'm not going to come right out and say GM's Z28 dyno numbers were juiced. Simply because The car could have been sitting on a dyno the shop set up to read high. Or was calibrated a little off. But same day testing shows the GT350R to be the faster car. Against the Z28.

Agree, the GT350 is faster and that is all that counts.:cheers:

 

[02gtnh]

I don't disagree with you. However it seems like a lot of people here (myself included in the past) are more worried about magazine numbers than real world performance.

Even if the Z/28 or ZL1 was bumped up to make Chevy look good, they are/were one hell of a car when they came out. I'm pretty sure every manufacturer has fudged a few things in their favor at some point. Just look at those stupid "Real People" commercials from Chevy right now.... Ugh... My eyes can't roll far enough when those come on. :doh:

How about Ford claiming the last gen GT500 could hit 200 mph? They weren't technically lying but the car struggled to get there unless conditions were perfect for it. Did anyone care? Besides some couch racers, no. It still made the ZL1 its bitch on the strip and was an awesome car.

Same thing with the Camaro.

Remember Al's "This thing will run 12's all day" comment? I do. I owned an auto ZL1 and the best I could get was 13.5 in the quarter. Mind you I'm not a great race driver and don't pretend to be. I was honestly impressed that the car put down that time with me behind the wheel. lol

But it definitely couldn't do 12s all day unless you had the perfect setup/weather/driver/tires/etc.

I don't believe Al said that, it was Tony Roma, a engineer that did.:cheers:

 

[Childs Play]

I don't believe Al said that, it was Tony Roma, a engineer that did.:cheers:

You got me there... Not sure why I was thinking Al said it. I also adjusted the times... I was an entire second off on both their time and mine. lol

Thanks daylight savings time...

I can still blame that right?

 

[68fbjjz109]

Exactly...

The car manufacturer's will always post the fastest time they were able to run. They aren't going to post a video showing the car messing up and running into the grass, or a lap with a missed shift that completely throws the car off, or one that is slower than the last. It's why they call them hero runs. Every manufacturer does the same thing...

Hero runs are different from what alot of people are discussing here.

Say what you will (not you specifically) however their seems to be a subtle bread trail of tweaks, inconsistency, or special attention by on site engineers to ensure the Camaro performs as good or better than it is.

This prevents consumers and testers from looking at data for what it truly is, or having systematic error or delta when looking at data that all cars run by magazines have.

I am a realist. And a overall fan of the segment, not just the Mustang. I don't care one bit that the Camaro is faster. Because it makes the segment better and gives me something to work towards. I really only get cranky when people on either side distort facts, due to blind brand loyalty.

The minute it was confirmed the 6GC was going to be on the Alpha platform. I started comparing ATS at work to the Mustang data, and knew from the get go, not only would the weight come off the car, making in more analogous to the lighter Mustang. And that even a non LT1 powered 6GC would give the Mustang a hard time.

That's because of the effort and optimization put into the Alpha platform on the whole, and no one can take that away from GM or the engineers on those platforms. It's irritating to see here people discount the effort put in the alpha platform.

The car is a performer and their is no denying that in any trim level.

That being said, I think GM takes them selves a little too seriously, they seem to have a unique corporate culture in that regard aswell. I personally think some of that culture and can lead to things being a little unscrupulous at times. This extends outside the Camaro.

GM has put alot effort into trying to take the steam out of the Germans sail with Cadillac and have fallen short. The Camaro has gone from sales leader, in segment to trailing a 15 year old benz with a hemi stuffed in it.

The performance variants have generated alot of publicity because they are fast, but some of these tests have odd in consistencies. The Z28 vs GTR, decontented 1LE vs fully contented GTPP, Z28 vs GT350R Dyno.

I don't know what the deal is with the ZL1 on the ring, but the consideration was that you couldn't get a production ZL1 do replicate it.

I have no doubt the ZL1 1LE will put the hurt on a GT350R until it gets heat soak.

It's just unfortunate that there is so much doubt, and there is some reasonable reason to have it. GM has lost the trust of some of it's competition.

I personally I am getting a little tired of reading some of the vs threads because the illegitimate under tone. When the Coyote came on the scene there was a legitimate consideration that from my GM buddies that they Mustang is faster in a straight line, in the corners, and is cheaper.

That didn't mean they all jumped shipped because there is other reasons to choose a Camaro over a Mustang then just performance. They tipped their hat, said kudos, and where eager for GM's response. However there wasn't this consideration that Ford was sending ringers, or having cars rerun when there was engineering support.

Which in my opinion is unfortunate. The Camaro deserves the majority of the praise it gets. There is alot of effort put into the car. There is just alot of outlining circumstances that make you go hmm, even if there isn't direct influence.

 

[bluebeastsrt]

Hero runs are different from what alot of people are discussing here.

Say what you will (not you specifically) however their seems to be a subtle bread trail of tweaks, inconsistency, or special attention by on site engineers to ensure the Camaro performs as good or better than it is.

This prevents consumers and testers from looking at data for what it truly is, or having systematic error or delta when looking at data that all cars run by magazines have.

I am a realist. And a overall fan of the segment, not just the Mustang. I don't care one bit that the Camaro is faster. Because it makes the segment better and gives me something to work towards. I really only get cranky when people on either side distort facts, due to blind brand loyalty.

The minute it was confirmed the 6GC was going to be on the Alpha platform. I started comparing ATS at work to the Mustang data, and knew from the get go, not only would the weight come off the car, making in more analogous to the lighter Mustang. And that even a non LT1 powered 6GC would give the Mustang a hard time.

That's because of the effort and optimization put into the Alpha platform on the whole, and no one can take that away from GM or the engineers on those platforms. It's irritating to see here people discount the effort put in the alpha platform.

The car is a performer and their is no denying that in any trim level.

That being said, I think GM takes them selves a little too seriously, they seem to have a unique corporate culture in that regard aswell. I personally think some of that culture and can lead to things being a little unscrupulous at times. This extends outside the Camaro.

GM has put alot effort into trying to take the steam out of the Germans sail with Cadillac and have fallen short. The Camaro has gone from sales leader, in segment to trailing a 15 year old benz with a hemi stuffed in it.

The performance variants have generated alot of publicity because they are fast, but some of these tests have odd in consistencies. The Z28 vs GTR, decontented 1LE vs fully contented GTPP, Z28 vs GT350R Dyno.

I don't know what the deal is with the ZL1 on the ring, but the consideration was that you couldn't get a production ZL1 do replicate it.

I have no doubt the ZL1 1LE will put the hurt on a GT350R for until it gets heat soak.

It's just unfortunate that there is so much doubt, and there is some reasonable reason to have it. GM has lost the trust of some of it's competition.

I personally I am getting a little tired of reading some of the vs threads because the illegitimate under tone. When the Coyote came on the scene there was a legitimate consideration that from my GM buddies that they Mustang is faster in a straight line, in the corners, and is cheaper.

That didn't mean they all jumped shipped because there is other reasons to choose a Camaro over a Mustang then just performance. They tipped their hat, said kudos, and where eager for GM's response. However there wasn't this consideration that Ford was sending ringers, or having cars rerun when there was engineering support.

Which in my opinion is unfortunate. The Camaro deserves the majority of the praise it gets. There is alot of effort put into the car. There is just alot of outlining circumstances that make you go hmm, even if there isn't direct influence.

Interesting point about heat soak. I'd be willing to bet the ZL1 is faster for one lap also. Which would give the forum warriors bragging rights. But most track days consist of 20 laps if I remember correctly. Haven't done it in about 10 years.

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