Youtube post regarding shorties vs. longtubes

[Petroleum Jesus]

Those claims are false. Check this video out. The 1 7/8" shorties lost a ton of power everywhere vs the 1 7/8" long tubes. This motor they are testing is NA and doesn't make much more power than a fully bolted and tuned NA coyote.

I don't believe this is a fair comparison, as the collectors in the shorties are a serious bottleneck, and the engine tested is making comparable power at 1k RPM less than a coyote could.

My understanding has always been that shorter headers are ideal at higher rpm due to the relationship between the pulse propagation and scavenging effect at the collector. Basically the higher you're looking to make power, the more likely a shorter header will benefit. Perhaps my understanding of the first principles is flawed.

Either way, I have never heard that shorties are the way to go for a Coyote. Even though it goes against my understanding of exhaust theory, I have always figured that the proof must be in the pudding, and everyone runs long-tubes. Case closed.

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[Performance nut]

Either way, I have never heard that shorties are the way to go for a Coyote. Even though it goes against my understanding of exhaust theory, I have always figured that the proof must be in the pudding, and everyone runs long-tubes. Case closed.

Playing devil's advocate, just because we all run them doesn't mean we are right. Unless folks did shorties first and then swapped out to LT's.

Only reason I know of that people use shorties is in the left coast folks who can't put on LT's and not get nicked by smog police.

 

[Terminator2]

Playing devil's advocate, just because we all run them doesn't mean we are right. Unless folks did shorties first and then swapped out to LT's.

Only reason I know of that people use shorties is in the left coast folks who can't put on LT's and not get nicked by smog police.

The stock TriY shorties are a superior design to other shorties. I wouldnt even consider aftermarket shorties over stock.

 

[armykyle1 [HACKED ACCOUNT]

I'm pretty sure other things on the car will drag before the headers will. Mine don't sit low...

 

[4V Mayhem]

Any dyno comparisons yet to back up or disprove these claims?

Matt

Over the past 20 or so years it has been proven over and over again that LTs are superior to STs. It has been proven on dynos and at the track. STs come close only when the stock cats are replaced with HF cats or removed completely and compared with LTs with the same. Even then LTs still outshine the STs. They flow and scavenge much better. The only time someone says different is when A - they can't afford LTs, B - they have clearance issues, C - they don't wanna tune and lose the warranty (since most STs for other cars allows you to retain the stock cats but not on the S550 GT), and D - when they don't know what they're talking about...lol!!

Playing devil's advocate, just because we all run them doesn't mean we are right. Unless folks did shorties first and then swapped out to LT's.

Only reason I know of that people use shorties is in the left coast folks who can't put on LT's and not get nicked by smog police.

The stock exhaust manifolds are effectively ST headers themselves. An aftermarket brand would offer no benefit. Any minimal benefit would not be worth the labor or the cost of labor or even the cost of the headers. You'd only gain from the use of HF cats or removing the cats altogether when going to an aftermarket ST. Out in Cali, STs on this car would still be illegal because it requires the removal of the stock cat since one of them is directly built into the stock exhaust manifold. And it is illegal to remove a stock cat if it is not damaged and the vehicle is under 50,000 miles and over 6 years. If the stock cat were to be damaged, then you would have to replace it with a stock replacement and it would have to be done at a repair shop and documented. So under no circumstances is a ST header legal in Cali for any S550 Mustang even if over 50,000 miles since none of them are over 6 years old. Sorry for the rant, lol!!

 

[Petroleum Jesus]

Out in Cali, STs on this car would still be illegal because it requires the removal of the stock cat since one of them is directly built into the stock exhaust manifold. And it is illegal to remove a stock cat if it is not damaged and the vehicle is under 50,000 miles and over 6 years. If the stock cat were to be damaged, then you would have to replace it with a stock replacement and it would have to be done at a repair shop and documented. So under no circumstances is a ST header legal in Cali for any S550 Mustang even if over 50,000 miles since none of them are over 6 years old. Sorry for the rant, lol!!

California is practically another country :shrug:

 

[MyFirst5.0]

wait, my Borla mufflers are robbing me of power?

lol..once i read that i stopped reading, that guy is clueless

 

[robertwsimpson]

lol..once i read that i stopped reading, that guy is clueless

Seriously though, what does Borla know about car exhaust anyway.

 

[Dominant1]

good article about long tubes:

http://www.stangtv.com/tech-stories...r-design-affects-the-output-of-the-coyote-5-0

 

[Petroleum Jesus]

good article about long tubes:

http://www.stangtv.com/tech-stories...r-design-affects-the-output-of-the-coyote-5-0

I've read this before. I found it confusing. They say the tri-y header has packaging issues, yet the pictured example clearly takes up less room than the 4-1s. Can anyone clarify?

 

[Terminator2]

I've read this before. I found it confusing. They say the tri-y header has packaging issues, yet the pictured example clearly takes up less room than the 4-1s. Can anyone clarify?

It can hit steering shafts and things if the y parts are father down stream. Stock headers are a shorty tri Y.

 

[sanchezcruz_20]

This guy actually commented on one of my vids a while back, tried to tell me I had installed a coolant line in the wrong place. Yeah, no.

Check out the comments in my vid:

[ame]

He comes off as a know-it-all. I'm not so sure.

 

[Dominant1]

Yeah he didn't have his glasses on!

 

[Bahndvr]

Oh my goodness. Not a shorty vs long tube.

http://www.mustangandfords.com/how-to/engine/29618-short-long-tube-headers-test/

 

[GGordon]

Over the past 20 or so years it has been proven over and over again that LTs are superior to STs. It has been proven on dynos and at the track. STs come close only when the stock cats are replaced with HF cats or removed completely and compared with LTs with the same. Even then LTs still outshine the STs. They flow and scavenge much better. The only time someone says different is when A - they can't afford LTs, B - they have clearance issues, C - they don't wanna tune and lose the warranty (since most STs for other cars allows you to retain the stock cats but not on the S550 GT), and D - when they don't know what they're talking about...lol!!

First off, I'll just say that I'm running a built Aluminator with a ProCharger system. I have the P1SC for street use, the D1SC-1 for mainly track use and the F-1R for high speed runs. I'm not going to debate why someone might not want to use a long tube header on a car with an 8,000RPM redline that operates between 12 and 25psi (depending on tune pulley, and head unit installed) at mainly between 4,000-7,000rpm. I'm not naturally aspirated and it isn't a drag car. It's a purpose built high RPM, flat torque curve circuit car.

This prototype car cost us well into the 6 figures to design, build, and track/road test the engine and 4 different power adder configurations we built into the car's deliverable options list. It's since been used as the basis for 8 production copies. This car was delivered from Ford in October of 2014 and wasn't retired from prototype status until recently (Sep 2016). It's now my full time daily driver and I likely won't be track driving it anymore.

That being said, header cost wasn't exactly an issue and we invalidated the powertrain warranty within 5 hours of taking delivery of the car

As a side note, I'm not much of a forum poster, so please don't be offended if I don't post regularly. I don't typically make a habit of debating configuration choices on the internet. Just know that everything has an intended use... both shorties and long tubes have their pluses and minuses. For my application, the header selection is a bit of a moot point due to clearance issues and the negligible power differences between the two above 5,000 RPM. There's a slew of other reasons why we went the way we did on it, but those are going to make sense for this build's specific purpose and may not necessarily be true for someone else's build.

Video below is of the completion of stage 1. Link in video to the final version in case you're curious.

[ame]

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