Why DIDN'T you get a camaro?

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

The coyote was not designed for FI like the predator engine. Compression ratio is too high and a GT doesn't have the cooling capacity nor the braking system to handle that kind of power in a sustained fashion (try a 20 minute lapping session with a blower on your GT and you're likely to get power limited).

You're dismissing the engineering that goes into something like the GT500 or the 1LE. You aren't going to be able to build the equivalent using the aftermarket.

Just because you put a whipple on your GT doesn't mean you're in the same league as a GT500.

This is true; maybe in a straight line, but that's about it.

 

[IamCDNJosh]

Driving in a straight line is boring.....

 

[Bulldog9]

If we're talking apples to apples any discussion of the ZL1 should be compared to the GT500.

I haven't had the pleasure of driving a new gt500, but I have driven a ZL1 and it was an absolute beast. Both are out of my price range, but given the choice I would go for the GT500 for my purposes.

I appreciate the Camaro for what it is and it's capabilities, but it doesn't speak to me and isn't a car that I could connect with.

Truth be told the M4 is spot on for what I want in a car, performance comfort styling technology etc. But when you add the BMW baggage of entry price, running expenses, and repairs, the Bullitt version of the Mustang is about as perfect a car as I could find, especially for the money. I like it more and more every time I drive it.
I'm not thrilled with the front clip particularly the headlights and how they're integrated into the nose of the car, and occasionally struggle with owning a Ford but all in all I think the S550 chassis is brilliant and well executed. And Ford did a great job, at least on my car with fit and finish, body panel spacing, and overall quality. Truly impressive and a keeper. That is unless I hit the lottery then it's going to be a new 911 s :-)

 

[Wsvi]

the mustang dash layout is much better and the trunk is better. The last good looking camaro is the 2017

 

[RYGO]

The coyote was not designed for FI like the predator engine. Compression ratio is too high and a GT doesn't have the cooling capacity nor the braking system to handle that kind of power in a sustained fashion (try a 20 minute lapping session with a blower on your GT and you're likely to get power limited).

You're dismissing the engineering that goes into something like the GT500 or the 1LE. You aren't going to be able to build the equivalent using the aftermarket.

Just because you put a whipple on your GT doesn't mean you're in the same league as a GT500.

The coyote was not designed for FI like the predator engine. Compression ratio is too high and a GT doesn't have the cooling capacity nor the braking system to handle that kind of power in a sustained fashion (try a 20 minute lapping session with a blower on your GT and you're likely to get power limited).

You're dismissing the engineering that goes into something like the GT500 or the ZL1. You aren't going to be able to build the equivalent using the aftermarket.

Just because you put a whipple on your GT doesn't mean you're in the same league as a GT500.

Oh here we go. Now its the camaro owners who also happen to have a new mustang bandwagon. Ok. Maybe you didnt read my first comments on this camaro thread praising the engineering ford puts into the mustang. Perhaps you have forgotten that Shelbys are mustangs. All parts can be put into any s550. Engine swaps included. Bigger brakes needed? No problem. Stiffer suspension needed? No problem. Cooling issues? No problem. Theres a fix for all of this. Take it from the shelby or buy the upgraded parts the shelby owners upgrade to. Ford already did the engineering and now its up to the owner to build it how he/she likes it. Ever heard of building your car? Well, thats a legacy mustang owners have established for over 50+ years. Camaro had to take a break and change tampons. Also, Dont try to sell people on this forum your bull crap about how your new camaro kicks your 5 month old mustangs ass. We all know you are not that good of a driver and even the professionals can barely beat each other taking turns in the 2 models head to head.

 

[oneheadlite]

I'm late to the party and admittedly didn't read all of the 22 pages...

I skipped over the Camaro because the interior is too small. I couldn't get my head fully upright in the sunroof version and the only non-sunroof on the lot was still touching my head (not just the hair, but compressing the hair and touching my scalp).

Also, the roof was so far forward, I would have to bend over to see the traffic lights, even from a couple car lengths back.

Finally was the price. The V8 Camaro with tech/stereo options was about $10K more, so price-wise it was actually a closer competitor to the GT350 and therefore lost some of its "track advantage" anyway.

Well, you must be a midget because @6'3", my Mustang is small for me compared to
my 2015 Camaro 2SS. (seats cramp me)
The Mustang has virtually NO room in the back seat for a full size person.
My wife (small) can fit in with the seat ran forward for my 5'10" Grandson in
the right front seat, mashing him.
The Camaro had more room, matter of fact, I almost decided against the
Camaro because the inside was SO teeny...........

 

[IrishStallion]

Well, you must be a midget because @6'3", my Mustang is small for me compared to
my 2015 Camaro 2SS. (seats cramp me)
The Mustang has virtually NO room in the back seat for a full size person.
My wife (small) can fit in with the seat ran forward for my 5'10" Grandson in
the right front seat, mashing him.
The Camaro had more room, matter of fact, I almost decided against the
Camaro because the inside was SO teeny...........

I like the size of C5 camaro soo much better than c6.

 

[IrishStallion]

Driving in a straight line is boring.....

Your right, my pp1 just slides right off the road much over 40 mph... lol.

 

[Venomous Pony]

We’ve all made a decision for various reasons. What is the point here? The Camaro does nothing for me, never has never will. Same can be said of Mustangs for other guys. You’ve ordered what you want, enjoy it have fun with it. I hope it treats you well.

 

[Norm Peterson]

As a current Mustang owner who went from a 3rd gen '87 Camaro Z28 (first car) and a 4th gen '95 Trans Am (2nd car), eventually to a new 2018 Mustang GT Premium (w/ A10, PP1, and MagneRide), and soon back to a Camaro ('21 ZL1 on order), I agree that the Mustang is a more famous and iconic brand than Camaro.

That said, the Camaro has generally been the more sports car focused pony car compared to the Mustang, at least in my lifetime (3rd gen on)

Sounds about right, mostly. Though I think the original Boss 302 held a slight edge over the Z/28. There is some evidence to suggest that the very early 5th gen Camaros may have looked the part without quite having the sports car chops to back it up. Chevy did fix this with the 5th gen 1LE and Z28.


I've driven a 6th gen Camaro, and for me at least it was a very easy car to just jump into and drive with a possibly excessive amount of enthusiasm through the curves and corners. I noticed less encroachment on outward visibility relative to my '08 GT than I'd noticed getting into my Mustang from FWD family sedans, so I think this issue is at least partly a perception of change. One thing I did not like about the 6th gen 1SS was the steering (in Track mode). Artificially heavy that tends to mask road feel isn't the way to go here, Chevy. Seems some Camaro owners feel the same way, preferring 'Normal' for the steering. I wonder if they've fixed this.


Norm

 

[Johnnybee]

Never really liked the Camaro styling when they brought it back, or any iteration since. The Mustang just looks better, top up or down. I will give the Camaro points for the top mechanism, I do like the power tonneau, however, this is offset by the small and variable trunk space.

 

[Norm Peterson]

Oh here we go. Now its the camaro owners who also happen to have a new mustang bandwagon. Ok. Maybe you didnt read my first comments on this camaro thread praising the engineering ford puts into the mustang. Perhaps you have forgotten that Shelbys are mustangs. All parts can be put into any s550. Engine swaps included. Bigger brakes needed? No problem. Stiffer suspension needed? No problem. Cooling issues? No problem. Theres a fix for all of this. Take it from the shelby or buy the upgraded parts the shelby owners upgrade to. Ford already did the engineering and now its up to the owner to build it how he/she likes it. Ever heard of building your car? Well, thats a legacy mustang owners have established for over 50+ years.

Ford has done enough engineering for each Mustang trim, which isn't necessarily enough to properly support higher performing trims or modification builds.

What tends to happen with the kind of "backyard-"engineered" builds that you're talking about (your Mustang's legacy) is that at the very least people end up taking advantage of the conservatism that Ford's own engineering program left in. IOW, trading on the margins of safety. Sometimes there's enough margin, sometimes there isn't. I urge you to read up on the S550's ongoing problems with differential cooling under sustained performance use.

The average backyard builder doesn't have a clue about engineering, let alone how it figures in to any intelligent performance build. Most don't know any different than "if some's good, more has to be better, and too much is probably about right". And some simply do what "everybody else they know" has done, no matter how much worse it makes the car drive. Long shackles used to be a thing, so maybe you should try driving a classic Mustang with those things fitted to the rear suspension.

I spent decades as an engineer. Literally decades. Granted it wasn't in the automotive field, but with engineering experience you do bring a different attitude to your personal car projects.


Just so you know, I've run in HPDE track sessions with a Saleen 427R. Used to consistently lap it inside of 20 minutes / less than a dozen laps in my 315-ish HP regular GT. That shouldn't have happened with that much of a disparity in power; he should have run away more down the straights than I'd have been able to make up for in the corners. Remember that the Saleen was supposed to have some cred in the corners as well. My point here is that sometimes even the aftermarket 'brand names' don't get it quite right the first few times.


Norm

 

[RYGO]

Ford has done enough engineering for each Mustang trim, which isn't necessarily enough to properly support higher performing trims or modification builds.

What tends to happen with the kind of "backyard-"engineered" builds that you're talking about (the Mustang legacy) is that at the very least people end up taking advantage of the conservatism that Ford's own engineering program left in. IOW, trading on the margins of safety. Sometimes there's enough margin, sometimes there isn't. I urge you to read up on the S550's ongoing problems with differential cooling under sustained performance use.

The average backyard builder doesn't have a clue about engineering, let alone how it figures in to any intelligent performance build. Most don't know any different than "if some's good, more has to be better, and too much is probably about right".

I spent decades as an engineer. Literally decades. Granted it wasn't in the automotive field, but with engineering experience you do bring a different attitude to your personal car projects.


Just so you know, I've run in HPDE track sessions with a Saleen 427R. Used to consistently lap it inside of 20 minutes / less than a dozen laps in my 315-ish HP regular GT. That shouldn't have happened with that much of a disparity in power; he should have run away more down the straights than I'd have been able to make up for in the corners. Remember that the Saleen was supposed to have some cred in the corners as well. My point here is that sometimes even the aftermarket 'brand names' don't get it quite right the first few times.


Norm

Couldnt agree more Norm. Sounds like you are the better driver too. Lets see some pics of your GT.

 

[IamCDNJosh]

Oh here we go. Now its the camaro owners who also happen to have a new mustang bandwagon. Ok. Maybe you didnt read my first comments on this camaro thread praising the engineering ford puts into the mustang. Perhaps you have forgotten that Shelbys are mustangs. All parts can be put into any s550. Engine swaps included. Bigger brakes needed? No problem. Stiffer suspension needed? No problem. Cooling issues? No problem. Theres a fix for all of this. Take it from the shelby or buy the upgraded parts the shelby owners upgrade to. Ford already did the engineering and now its up to the owner to build it how he/she likes it. Ever heard of building your car? Well, thats a legacy mustang owners have established for over 50+ years. Camaro had to take a break and change tampons. Also, Dont try to sell people on this forum your bull crap about how your new camaro kicks your 5 month old mustangs ass. We all know you are not that good of a driver and even the professionals can barely beat each other taking turns in the 2 models head to head.

I don't own a Camaro.

I also come from an engineering background, I worked in aerospace and not automotive. You're dismissing the engineering & testing that goes into the overall package of a special edition car like the GT500 or ZL1.

Many owners who "build" their car end up with a vehicle that is either out of balance, handles poorly or so powerful it just overwhelms the rest of the vehicles systems.

This is why I largely stuck with parts made by suppliers that actually work with the OEM (FP, Roush & RTR) and avoid the aftermarket at all costs (between my car and truck I have 4 aftermarket parts). Real life isn't like Gran Turismo where you can just throw parts at your car without consequences.

 

[Norm Peterson]

Couldnt agree more Norm. Sounds like you are the better driver too. Lets see some pics of your GT.

OK for an old retired guy, I hope. My first track day ever I split the difference in lap times between two guys sharing a 5th gen SS Camaro. Not as fast as the fast guy but clearly faster than his co-driver (the laps were being officially timed).

Sorry for the watermarks on the track pics; they were all I was ever able to get. There's a sneak-peek pic in my sig, too.