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Who will swap for the new 7.3 V8!

jake_zx2

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Because we want a modern good handling, modern styling with lots of fun down low power that the classic muscle cars had. Why is that so wrong?
for a couple reasons...

1. The current mustang has FAR more power ALL OVER the RPM range than pretty much any classic muscle car
2. What you're asking for is a VERY niche market that would actually hurt the car for the majority of buyers. If you want all that, why not get a Camaro?
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jake_zx2

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Actually I drive the Mustang everyday.


Those old cars are old cars now. This new engine is a charm with old world design and modern amenities that old school hot rodders can get comfy with.


To give you an idea of the problems with old V8s, here is my first car. A 1979 Mercury Marquis with a 302 V8 topped with a Ford Variable Venturi carborator - the shittiest carborator every designed in the history of the universe!


Mercury_Marquis_1.jpg



Trust me it was horrible but got me started in hot rodding and the first mod was a traditional carborator! Check out the snorkel and that stainless steel clamp that holds the flex hose to this flimsy heat shroud (bolted to the exhaust manifold) that is activated by vacuum and draws warm air to the carb for better drivability.


Trust me the 7.3 swap is a better idea. I hope that answers your question...
It sort of answers my questions, but your antics still confuse me. You want something well mannered, but don't want a smaller displacement DOHC. If you want modern, well, pushrod engines in sports cars is not modern. That's the way of the past, and it's dying for good reason
 

jake_zx2

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And just so you guys know, I'm not some old car pushrod hater. The car that got me into Mustangs (and cars in general) was a 1969 Mustang Convertible with a 428SCJ swapped into it. I LOVED that car, and actually will be in the market for another one fairly soon. However, I absolutely do not want that in my 2018 sports car
 
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And just so you guys know, I'm not some old car pushrod hater. The car that got me into Mustangs (and cars in general) was a 1969 Mustang Convertible with a 428SCJ swapped into it. I LOVED that car, and actually will be in the market for another one fairly soon. However, I absolutely do not want that in my 2018 sports car

Two years later has said Mustang with 7.3 swap... :like:
 

engineermike

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...The fact the performance issue seems to have disappeared is a victory of sorts.
The only performance “issue” was when you seemed to think it could achieve >1 hp/cid while also being built for low-end torque (<2000 rpm). When you finally relented this point, we have no performance “issue”.
 

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The only performance “issue” was when you seemed to think it could achieve >1 hp/cid while also being built for low-end torque (<2000 rpm). When you finally relented this point, we have no performance “issue”.

Ok Mike.


But apart from all that I think this swap is going to happen and might - just might - be popular.


Why not exit V8 land with a big block Mustang in the lineup?
 

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...If you go back to the start of his thread the engine swap is more of a reality than it’s seemed back then.
Only in the mind of a self-admitted irrational person.

I wrenched in an s10 v8 conversion way back when. And yes, the v8 was only 4” longer than the engine it replaced. We had to decide between bashing the firewall or scooting the engine forward and relocating the radiator. We opted to do the latter. However, this created 2 other problems (other than having to fab custom radiator mounts): 1) the Gc of the engine was now forward of the front wheels, thereby making the weight distribution worse, and 2) the engine was still so far back that you couldn’t even remove the distributor without pulling the engine first. And this engine was “only” 4” longer.
 

engineermike

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... I think this swap is going to happen and might - just might - be popular.
I don’t make bold predictions often but I feel very comfortable in saying that no one who has the means and expertise to install a 7.3 into a current gen mustang is going to do it and take a loss in power vs the available 5.0. Furthermore, if it makes more power than the current 5.0 then it won’t be the low-end torque-monster you want.

If this motor turns out to make 400 hp +/-, no one is going to be doing mustang swaps. It would have to make 500++ to make anyone of means think seriously about it. I’m not talking about you, personally, because you don’t have the means or expertise to make it happen (no offense; neither do I.....but I do have a better grasp of what it takes).
 

tw557

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1. The current mustang has FAR more power ALL OVER the RPM range than pretty much any classic muscle car
2. What you're asking for is a VERY niche market that would actually hurt the car for the majority of buyers. If you want all that, why not get a Camaro?
I've been in some classic muscle cars (even a 65 327 vette)and they certainly had way more short shifting power then a stock coyote motor. A Lot. And I make sure I say stock. I believe a tune, a couple bolt ons and gearing change could help a lot though. And I think it is a stretch to say "VERY" niche market. No one seems to dislike the Camaro, Corvette and certainly the Hellcat because of its low end power. Let alone most Euro cars with their turbos pumping out all kinds of low end power. I know of 3 guys including myself that passed on getting a GT because the test drives left us underwhelmed.
I just can't bring myself to like the rest of the Camaro. The mustang is my favorite style and I grew up with mustangs. I just want a mustang that would fit my everyday needs more. I don't want to sound like an asshole driving around town at 6000 rpm to have fun in the power band. Plus I like the sound of bigger bore motors more too.
 

Erik427

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Only in the mind of a self-admitted irrational person.

I wrenched in an s10 v8 conversion way back when. And yes, the v8 was only 4” longer than the engine it replaced. We had to decide between bashing the firewall or scooting the engine forward and relocating the radiator. We opted to do the latter. However, this created 2 other problems (other than having to fab custom radiator mounts): 1) the Gc of the engine was now forward of the front wheels, thereby making the weight distribution worse, and 2) the engine was still so far back that you couldn’t even remove the distributor without pulling the engine first. And this engine was “only” 4” longer.
The 7.3 is about a inch longer than a Coyote.
The 5.0 is not small any way you measure it.
Longer than a ls.
Wider than a ls.
Taller than a ls.
7.3 is around the same size as a chevy ls.
The people wanting the 7.3 are looking for displacement not pushrods.

Why is this so hard to understand?
The FWD derived Coyote is becoming dated and overtaken by it's competition.
If the 7.3 is the only option to replace it? Then so be it.

The chevy ls is often used to replace the Coyote.
I see the 7.3 filling this same roll.

When the Coyote/Road Runner was on the drawing board.
Ford Engineers should have expanded the bore spacing beyond mod motor specs.
It really is that simple.
 

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jake_zx2

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I've been in some classic muscle cars (even a 65 327 vette)and they certainly had way more short shifting power then a stock coyote motor. A Lot. And I make sure I say stock. I believe a tune, a couple bolt ons and gearing change could help a lot though. And I think it is a stretch to say "VERY" niche market. No one seems to dislike the Camaro, Corvette and certainly the Hellcat because of its low end power. Let alone most Euro cars with their turbos pumping out all kinds of low end power. I know of 3 guys including myself that passed on getting a GT because the test drives left us underwhelmed.
I just can't bring myself to like the rest of the Camaro. The mustang is my favorite style and I grew up with mustangs. I just want a mustang that would fit my everyday needs more. I don't want to sound like an asshole driving around town at 6000 rpm to have fun in the power band. Plus I like the sound of bigger bore motors more too.
Correction: They FEEL like they have more short shifting power. This also comes down to gearing and suspension, which make older cars feel that way. But in reality, if you look at the dyno graphs, modern mustangs have more power and torque ALL OVER the power band.

It, in fact, IS a very niche market to want a massive, heavy iron block in a Mustang. If pushrods were so popular, then the Mustang wouldn't outsell both the Challenger and Camaro. I know PLENTY of people who wouldn't buy a Camaro or Challenger because of their engine characteristics... these are people (like myself) that, if the mustang had a low strung truck engine, would buy a BMW M2 instead. Bottom line is, the mustang is the ONLY car in the segment that offers a true sports car engine. Many people buy the Mustang for that exact reason. The amount of people who would willingly downgrade to a less powerful, heavier engine are few and far between.

And no matter what you drive, you're going to sound like an asshole if you're trying to "have fun in the power band" around town
 

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@jake_zx2 - The high revving nature of the Coyote is why I love it so much. It has an "exotic" feel and sound to it the way it builds power and screams at high rpm. I'm not sure why some people don't appreciate that about the S550.

Different strokes I guess.
 

jake_zx2

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@jake_zx2 - The high revving nature of the Coyote is why I love it so much. It has an "exotic" feel and sound to it the way it builds power and screams at high rpm. I'm not sure why some people don't appreciate that about the S550.

Different strokes I guess.
If the S550 had a pushrod engine, I probably would've ended up in an E92 BMW... the way those V8s rev is INSANE

Or maybe I would've just waited a bit and gotten a used Ferrari...
 

tw557

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Correction: They FEEL like they have more short shifting power. This also comes down to gearing and suspension, which make older cars feel that way. But in reality, if you look at the dyno graphs, modern mustangs have more power and torque ALL OVER the power band.

It, in fact, IS a very niche market to want a massive, heavy iron block in a Mustang. If pushrods were so popular, then the Mustang wouldn't outsell both the Challenger and Camaro. I know PLENTY of people who wouldn't buy a Camaro or Challenger because of their engine characteristics... these are people (like myself) that, if the mustang had a low strung truck engine, would buy a BMW M2 instead. Bottom line is, the mustang is the ONLY car in the segment that offers a true sports car engine. Many people buy the Mustang for that exact reason. The amount of people who would willingly downgrade to a less powerful, heavier engine are few and far between.

And no matter what you drive, you're going to sound like an asshole if you're trying to "have fun in the power band" around town
It was not FEEL quicker, they are quicker at short shifting. There are plenty of GT owners that agree the bottom end torque is lacking in stock form. I have looked at many a stock dyno sheets too and it sure doesn't translate to how it pulls in low rpms. I guess need to be flat to the floor even in the low rpms to get a decent pull which doesn't work too well in an automatic.

Maybe it is true that more guys then not want a rpm motor over the bottom end power motors. I really don't know those facts. But it is interesting you mention the M2 because my boss who was set on a new GT or used Hellcat ended up with an M235. He liked the way more bottom/midrange pull over the mustang and the Hellcat was too much power to drive spirited. And the a push rod motor doesn't have to be heavier then a coyote which is actually heavier and bigger then a 6.2 camaro motor. BUT there is no question if I was doing racing anymore, I would not have any issues at all with the coyote. FOR ME its just not the characteristics I'm looking for on the street.

And, no I wont sound like an asshole zippy around town at 2000 -3500 rpms if that is where the power band is.
 

jake_zx2

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It was not FEEL quicker, they are quicker at short shifting. There are plenty of GT owners that agree the bottom end torque is lacking in stock form. I have looked at many a stock dyno sheets too and it sure doesn't translate to how it pulls in low rpms. I guess need to be flat to the floor even in the low rpms to get a decent pull which doesn't work too well in an automatic.

Maybe it is true that more guys then not want a rpm motor over the bottom end power motors. I really don't know those facts. But it is interesting you mention the M2 because my boss who was set on a new GT or used Hellcat ended up with an M235. He liked the way more bottom/midrange pull over the mustang and the Hellcat was too much power to drive spirited. And the a push rod motor doesn't have to be heavier then a coyote which is actually heavier and bigger then a 6.2 camaro motor. BUT there is no question if I was doing racing anymore, I would not have any issues at all with the coyote. FOR ME its just not the characteristics I'm looking for on the street.

And, no I wont sound like an asshole zippy around town at 2000 -3500 rpms if that is where the power band is.
I really don't understand the complaints of "lacking bottom end". When street driving, I usually shift around 2500RPM and still accelerate harder than the cars around me. This car is NOT lacking in low end unless you compare it to a modern performance pushrod engine (where it isn't even a significant difference) or a turbo engine. But it is certainly more power all over the RPM range than an old big block engine, and can be short shifted just like one. It not feeling the same to you simply comes down to, as mentioned before, suspension, gearing, and tires.

On the subject of the M2, the low-end torque is actually a typical complaint of the car, and why a lot of people have started buying Mustangs instead of BMWs. People who are looking for a true sporting experience want to string out their engines to feel the power. While BMW offers the chassis and suspension for an excellent sports car, the Mustang is now the one that can provide the engine with very little compromise in chassis dynamics... this is reflected in the way that the Mustang has overtaken BMW sales in their own home country. People used to go to BMW for a pure sporting experience back when they had N/A engines (like the 4.0 V8 8500 screamer I mentioned earlier), now they come to the Mustang.

In regards to weight, a typical pushrod engine won't weigh much less than a Coyote despite the size. Look at the LS3... it's only 50lbs or so lighter than the Coyote. However, I wasn't talking about pushrod engines in general, I was talking about THIS pushrod engine. It's a cast iron block, meaning it's not going to be light at all. I'd expect 100lbs over a Coyote. NO ONE is going to prefer that weight gain paired with a 100+hp loss for their sports car.

And yes, you look like an asshole if you're trying to utilize the power band in town at all. There's no reason to be over 25% throttle in town. Save that shit for the track
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