What if the "Tick" can't be fixed?

[Jetnoise]

had them replace because of the tick 100% stock motors

Why did Ford do that?

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[Jetnoise]

My thoughts on the topic of the various ticks after reading through hundreds of posts:

1. It's a fundamental design problem that is exacerbated by production tolerances. This is why some cars do it and others do not.

2. Some people are more sensitive to noises than others. So enthusiasts like us folks are going to be more keen to hearing noises than the average person who just wants to drive a Mustang. The dealers claiming this is "normal" feeds into that as well. I'll bet most owners, overall in the scheme of things, accept that explanation and move on.

3. Ford knows darn well what is wrong and the reason it hasn't been fixed in the latest models is because it *is* a design problem and will cost Ford a fortune to re-tool. Ford is treading water until the next version of this motor is released and also biding their time with stalling tactics until warranties expire. Running out the clock if you will.

From a logical POV the key to solving this problem is to pin down when reports started to surface and to determine what has changed with these motors along the way.
Suppliers?
Change in manufacturing specs, ie: mid-stream design changes?
Manufacturing?
New line techs doing assembly?

Personally my antenna go up with this cylinder coating process.
But that's just me. The one super puzzling aspect of this is why are there so many complaints of the ticking starting after the first oil change?
That throws a real curve ball into this issue.
Is it possible, that Ford uses some kind of break in addititive on the line when these motors are built and that's what keeps them quiet?
Even if true, that doesn't explain folks getting the tick before the first oil change, so my suspicion is there are multiple problems.

Sorry for the dissertation but as I'm looking at buying a 2019 or maybe a 2019 Camaro, which BTW at least up to 2018 has it's own set of problems with tranny shudder, erratic shifting (automatics) and differential groan.
Scary stuff.

Just my 2 cents.

Your number three chimes with me...#1 and #3 is the death of any manufacture and Ford is just not any manufacturer.

Break in lube? As in assembly lube? Yes there are things in assembly lube not found in your oil change regiment

 

[Jetnoise]

The Rolex my X had to have ticked. Must have been broke too?
Leave your engineering mind out of the equation for a bit...keeps the blood pressure in check
Until you can identify what ever noise you think your hearing your engineer trained mind can't fix anything. Not to be challenging but how does an engineer approach anything until they know what they are working with... a complicated system...how it was designed, manufactured and should be maintained.

Urban Dictionary definition of an Engineer....cracks me up....but holds many truths

To the engineer, all matter in the universe can be placed into one of two categories: (1) things that need to be fixed, and (2) things that will need to be fixed after you've had a few minutes to play with them. Engineers like to solve problems. If there are no problems handily available, they will create their own problems. Normal people don't understand this concept; they believe that if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Engineers believe that if it ain't broke, it doesn't have enough features yet." - Scott Adams, The Dilbert Principle

 

[GT Pony]

So what is the trigger point for the Coyote noises appearing after the 1st oil change?
Possibilities are:

1. The noise was there all the time and owners didn't notice.
2. Some part of the engine is starved of oil on clean start up after an oil change and never recovers as damage is done.
3. Factory oil is fundamentally different from off the shelf oil and that difference makes all the difference in the noise factor.

There may be more possibilities but these are the basic ones that come to mind for me.

Could also be that the "Tribochemical barrier" is stripped away with new oil. This could also explain why some guys report the tick goes away after about 1000~1200 miles are put on the new oil - because a new Tribochemical barrier is formed.

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4792844/Re:_Benefits_of_retained_oil

 

[Condor1970]

Could also be that the "Tribochemical barrier" is stripped away with new oil. This could also explain why some guys report the tick goes away after about 1000~1200 miles are put on the new oil - because a new Tribochemical barrier is formed.

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4792844/Re:_Benefits_of_retained_oil

I had 2,500 miles on my oil change, and decided to switch to 5w30. after 2,500 miles, There was no change in the tick. For some it goes away, but not for mine.

 

[Condor1970]

The BBQ tick is very random, it doesn't follow any RPM exactly.

Yes it does. It's just when it does it at idle, it skips beats, but the tick happens at the same point in the cycle of the engine.

Proof of this, is my tick starts to speed up and morph into a constant tick with engine rpm when I rev the engine up in the 1,200-2000rpm range,.

Also, Watch this video of StangMode @ 11:00 mark. He said in one of his earlier videos that his car did not tick. Well, it obviously does, and/or recently started to.

 

[88lx50]

I had gotten the tick after my first oil change, switch out 1000 miles later to 5w40 rotella tick subsided. The last few weeks it had came back its loud and also have the rattle. I've put a beaten on this car last 5 months with the supercharger, a friend mention the dealer fixed his tick with new imrc. I think if the tick really effected the short block from where ever the sound is coming from I would of been one of the first people to grenade this motor. I think I am going to change the oil soon and send out a sample to blackstone labs, the noise is really starting to bother me.
ps: my other buddy had 3 short blocks replaced each and every one of them ticked.

The original Gen 1 Coyote had the tick but no IMRC. I think someone else said his tick was fixed this way as well but maybe there was another variable at the same time like an oil change.
Mike just wondering when you change the oil are you going to use Rotella again? I am wondering if the Rotella broke down due to the beating the engine took and the heavier weight wasn't masking the tick anymore. It would be interesting if the tick went away again.

 

[growler]

1) never been another ford with high pressure fuel pump mounted on cam, up high,except 3.5
2) 200 miles of timimg chain turning four cams + retarding and advancing them
3) intake manifold runner control
4) direct injection
5) over 12 to one compression with an aluminum block

1,4, and 5 are pretty much things no one has experienced in another ford and possibly not in combination in any other vehicle, no one has anything to compare this engine to
2017 and up 3.5 ecoboost closest comparison and it makes the same noises...so tell me how anyone can tell me whats normal and whats not?..if ford says its normal its normal

 

[88lx50]

1) never been another ford with high pressure fuel pump mounted on cam, up high,except 3.5
2) 200 miles of timimg chain turning four cams + retarding and advancing them
3) intake manifold runner control
4) direct injection
5) over 12 to one compression with an aluminum block

1,4, and 5 are pretty much things no one has experienced in another ford and possibly not in combination in any other vehicle, no one has anything to compare this engine to
2017 and up 3.5 ecoboost closest comparison and it makes the same noises...so tell me how anyone can tell me whats normal and whats not?..if ford says its normal its normal

Not the same. The tick has been around since before DI. Not sure if the 'rattle' can be attributed to it because it sounds like they all have it and I suspect it is direct injection related, but that damn tick is pre-DI
If it is 'normal' then shame on Ford for not being able to do a better job with NVH in the motor. No new motor should have an annoying, loud, random tick considered acceptable

 

[stangman638]

Ford stated it is indeed excessive clearance on the crankshaft, bearing, etc something on the lower end. Just read all hotline notes from Ford to the mechanic at dealership.

 

[NastyPumpkin]

Yes it does. It's just when it does it at idle, it skips beats, but the tick happens at the same point in the cycle of the engine.

Proof of this, is my tick starts to speed up and morph into a constant tick with engine rpm when I rev the engine up in the 1,200-2000rpm range,.

Also, Watch this video of StangMode @ 11:00 mark. He said in one of his earlier videos that his car did not tick. Well, it obviously does, and/or recently started to.

Yeah! His car definitely has the tick...

 

[stangman638]

2017 and up 3.5 ecoboost closest comparison and it makes the same noises...so tell me how anyone can tell me whats normal and whats not?..if ford says its normal its normal

There is nothing normal about metal on metal contact and metal shavings in your oil. Put down the kool aid and stop trying to justify their faults - this is why they get over on consumers, they also tried covering up the focus transmission snafu until folks were killed and a class action suit was started, than they put out a recall.

Why does anyone think they won't lie to you? It's all about the profits dude, its cheaper to have parts machined to wider tolerances rather than tighter ones, they'll try an get away with it for as long as possible if you let them.

 

[steveo1960]

There is nothing normal about metal on metal contact and metal shavings in your oil. Put down the kool aid and stop trying to justify their faults - this is why they get over on consumers, they also tried covering up the focus transmission snafu until folks were killed and a class action suit was started, than they put out a recall.

Why does anyone think they won't lie to you? It's all about the profits dude, they'll try an get away with it for as long as possible if you let them.

Exactly.
In the last month I've heard 3 examples of late model noisy Ford motors.

1. A late model, looked brand new in fact, F150 in front of me at the CVS drive through.
2. A guy in a 2018 GT driving down the lane at a Mustang stampede car show. I spoke with him and he was working with Ford for a possible new motor.
3. A 2018 leftover I was thinking of buying. Had the dealer start it up and heard the ticking, told him turn it off because I wasn't interested.

If Ford claims these noises are normal then shame on Ford for selling a $50k car that has a motor that makes more noise than a NYC taxi cab with 400k on the odometer.

 

[accel]

And that's the really puzzling part for my engineering mind... So my 03 GT will knock a bit on first startup if I don't use an oil filter with an anti drain back valve but it goes away and all is fine. I have about 170k on it, doesn't burn any oil and is quiet as a mouse..

So what is the trigger point for the Coyote noises appearing after the 1st oil change?
Possibilities are:

1. The noise was there all the time and owners didn't notice.
2. Some part of the engine is starved of oil on clean start up after an oil change and never recovers as damage is done.
3. Factory oil is fundamentally different from off the shelf oil and that difference makes all the difference in the noise factor.

There may be more possibilities but these are the basic ones that come to mind for me.

Baeed on 11-14 used oil analysis spreadsheet it is possible to assume that factory oil is thinner than 5w20.

https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/post-bbq-tick-users-which-oil.111293/page-3#post-2372946

 

[stangman638]

If Ford claims these noises are normal then shame on Ford for selling a $50k car that has a motor that makes more noise than a NYC taxi cab with 400k on the odometer.

Even the dealer said Ford's hotline reply back to them was ridiculous.

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