Transmission failure at 9600 miles, lost reverse months ago and dealer says not warranty for clutch in pieces

[MikeR397]

I stopped by the dealer and got some more photos. The block flanges do look fine, I checked them out carefully with the master tech/foreman; it's the bell housing separator plate that has the crack and is ruined and already being replaced (and yes, this is the part that makes the buzzing metallic noise on acceleration many people get replaced -- I have this noise too but it was never bad enough to bother me though a helmet).

I looked at the AC helicoil bolts and it actually doesn't look that bad to get to them through the passenger wheel well. I don't see evidence of a botched service job on that process, nor can I see an advantage to pissing the shop off an potentially causing them liability on the parts if we can otherwise get Ford to approve a warranty claim.

The tech confirmed my clutch grenaded (as others repoted here) as he found chunks of it hanging out and in other spots, although the pressure plate and flywheel are still attached. He says he thinks it should be warrantied, but Ford needs to approve it and all he's getting is a rubber stamp "deny clutch claim" from the standard process. My internal claims rep seems out of office until tomorrow and they haven't connected, but both of them agree a Ford Zone Rep needs to come out and make a decision on (1) if the motor helicoils are ok or the engine needs replaced and (2) if the clutch will be covered under warranty.

The tech again said he is happy to do a motor if that is what Ford says, but he has looked and has zero paperwork to support a helicoil not being allowed in the Voodoo, or any mention about no drilling or tapping or helicoils allowed. I do have a voicemail from EF300's service advisor stating that this is exactly what his Ford zone rep said and that a new motor was required, and played that for the tech. He said still he obviously needs Ford to approve it for him to order a new motor. So, need to get that zone rep out and figure out what's going to happen. I don't understand how there can be no documentation saying no drilling/tapping allowed yet the zone reps are saying such and this is widely accepted as true on this forum?

Sponsored

 

[sigintel]

Cracks open up under stress but are typically difficult to see naked eye on aluminum casting. Typically dye penetrant is used then washed off.
Cracks in the block flanges would be in the web sections back away from the actual holes. Youd need to look from the passengers side of the block looking aft at the mounting flange from the holes all the way to the block at the web root. An experienced dealer mechanic would prolly need like 2 minutes to check this with a rattle can of penetrant.

Hope your engine is all good and all the prybar damage/action was from clutch shrapnel binding the flywheel in the housing.

 

[MikeR397]

O, this is going just fantastic (not). My "friends and family" internal Ford rep (a high level Ford engineer friend helped open this case for me) just told me that there is now a concern about (1) my autoblip and (2) track use / abuse of my car wrt to even having the transmission covered under warranty IF I decided to have a field service engineer come out for (1) motor replacement due to helicoils and (2) if the destroyed clutch should be covered. WTF! I was told there is no way I get to meet or speak with the field rep and that their decision is final, no appeals, and they would go over the entire history of the car including tire use/replacements to determine potential abuse to deny all claims including the Trans that is already approved! Total failure for customer satisfaction efforts here, even for someone who purchased new a R and Raptor in the past 3 years.

I told her there is no way the autoblip can be blamed as it does not change any of the car's manufactured parameters and only does what my foot already does, blip the engine slightly on downshifts -- if anything, this ensures a rev matched engine and trans and prevents any damage! I don't use the thing ever on the street anyway. WRT to the track/abuse threat, I told her the damn car comes with a track supplement with track settings for the car, not to mention the whole class action over these cars not being track ready in 2016 without trans and diff coolers. I've never raced the car, no timing or competition, just multiple HPDE days as the damn car was made for. I cannot believe they are attempting to use HPDE as a threat to void a transmission replacement they already approved if I keep pushing for a field rep to come.

So for now I'm requesting the simple answer of if helicoil's are allowed, and not asking for a field service rep to come out. They should be able to figure that out with a hotline call, but my concern is the hotline rep isn't GT350 trained and is likely to randomly just tell them there is nothing preventing helicoil use in general.

 

[jmn444]

Damn man, that sucks!

 

[ice445]

This whole experience tells me how poor Ford is right now and how they are looking for any excuse to deny big claims. Sad

 

[MikeR397]

I am specifically being told that Fords warranty policy says "components...Adversely affected by racing, track use or other events... are excluded from coverage. Racing includes time trials, competition, or any similar situation in which abnormal stress is placed on the car or components. So the boilerplate does have a opened ended interpretation to pretty much deny your warranty claim for any track use or abuse in this "similar situation of abnormal stress" clause. This is VERY contrary to the info that members here on the forum say, that track use will not deny a warranty on a GT350. This situation does suck though...I thought I had 8 years with my premium extended warranty and wasn't going to have to worry about massive out of pocket costs.

I just spoke with the dealer shop foreman about all this and I really do think he is a good guy and is trying to help me, he's an enthusiast and he's just reading this out of his book and telling me it's a real risk that a field rep can come and deny my already approved transmission (which is $6.8k warranty cost on parts alone, so probably would be $12k+ cost to me installed). Also, fwiw, it seems a slave cylinder with TO bearing is included with a new trans and I wouldn't have to buy that.

He's going to talk it over with the head customer service manager and try to open a hotline ticket about the helicoil and/or if they can get the hotline to warranty the destroyed flywheel and pressure plate by providing more details, and maybe some progress can be made there (although not holding my breath). With a field rep, despite never racing, I have done my fair share of track days and have a big history of tire changes, so I do have to take the threat of losing coverage on the pricey transmission seriously. I'd be able to trade this car in somewhere at a reasonable value and get a like new 2019 R for less price difference than the cost of warrantied trans.

eta: and of course the engine issue doesn't need to be closed today, I just wanted all this taken care of at the same time, in the off track season, and also to safe on effort and risks detaching the trans from the engine later on if a new engine is eventually approved. For $1250 costs flywheel and pressure plate, it probably makes the most sense to avoid the field service rep until after the trans is installed and deal with the motor later (at least if they cannot fix the VCT related surging on a 6th try...possibly with some VCT phaser replacements, idk).

 

[MikeR397]

This whole experience tells me how poor Ford is right now and how they are looking for any excuse to deny big claims. Sad

Yep. And I bought a new 17 Raptor and new 17 R from this dealer/Ford. Maybe you need to buy a Ford GT to get anyone to actually give the smallest iota of shit about customer satisfaction? I do love these vehicles, but there is a limit to how much I can put up with (at least at these price levels) on top of all the ADM pricing bullshit dealers are allowed by Ford to do with performance vehicles (who apparently void their warranty if they are used for any of that performance). I know for sure Dodge and Chevy don't allow the ADM nonsense on new cars and will restrict dealer performance inventory if they try it.

I'm still hopeful Ford will do the right thing here for a true car enthusiast (I have 6 cars), even if I do want to take a car to the track from time to time. If not, there's Chevy or Porsche or Ferrari that will be happy to take my cash and see how their warranty process works.

 

[honeybadger]

Time to bring in a lawyer I think. This is unacceptable on Fords part. They have to prove that your autoblip caused an issue. Also, they have to prove your track use caused the issue.

They can’t. It’s fucking horse shit.

 

[luc]

Time to bring in a lawyer I think. This is unacceptable on Fords part. They have to prove that your autoblip caused an issue. Also, they have to prove your track use caused the issue.

They can’t. It’s fucking horse shit.

Bringing a lawyer right now would be a mistake. Ford will close all “ negotiations “ and there is no way back once a lawyer is involved
A for ford having to “prove” a causality between the track days and damages before denying coverage, that is 100% bs in real life
Ford can deny coverage, since they are in the driver seat, and YOU end up being the one having to legally prove that there was no causality...... to force them to cover the damages

 

[honeybadger]

Bringing a lawyer right now would be a mistake. Ford will close all “ negotiations “ and there is no way back once a lawyer is involved
A for ford having to “prove” a causality between the track days and damages before denying coverage, that is 100% bs in real life
Ford can deny coverage, since they are in the driver seat, and YOU end up being the one having to legally prove that there was no causality...... to force them to cover the damages

This is false. It’s been fought and won multiple times on this forum. It’s not new.

Ford is required to prove that the reason it failed was due to customer negligence. This is literally the law. They won’t be able to prove that because it’s shit.

It’s happened with tunes and blown motors. It can be a battle, but it can be done.

 

[luc]

This is false. It’s been fought and won multiple times on this forum. It’s not new.

Ford is required to prove that the reason it failed was due to customer negligence. This is literally the law. They won’t be able to prove that because it’s shit.

It’s happened with tunes and blown motors. It can be a battle, but it can be done.

????????
Your point was that Ford had to “prove” before denying claim
My reply was that it was bs and that you end up having to prove that they cannot deny the claim
Therefore, as you concede, you first have to retain legal counsel, possible file a lawsuit, all of that costing some serious $
I’m not opining on the potential merit of the suit, simply stating what happen in real life

 

[racingandfishing]

Only thing to note when the lawyer topic arises in many of these forums. Unless it is a case where there is the potential for a very large monetary award, you have to pay everything up front and you will not likely be reimbursed the lawyer fees even if you win. At the minimum, you will pay a $5,000 retainer fee, $3-400 dollars per hour for every moment they think about your case, court fees, filing fees, travel expenses, etc. It will very quickly add up to more than your repairs or replacement and big companies bank on it...literally.

 

[MikeR397]

Only thing to note when the lawyer topic arises in many of these forums. Unless it is a case where there is the potential for a very large monetary award, you have to pay everything up front and you will not likely be reimbursed the lawyer fees even if you win. At the minimum, you will pay a $5,000 retainer fee, $3-400 dollars per hour for every moment they think about your case, court fees, filing fees, travel expenses, etc. It will very quickly add up to more than your repairs or replacement and big companies bank on it...literally.

In case you haven't seen it and spoiler alert....the car company bean counters decide it is cheaper to settle the cases instead of recalling the car.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0101590/

Well, one thing perhaps germane to this is that I have a law degree myself. I don’t practice, or specialize in litigation/civil procedure, but I do have legal expertise to do much of the work and have legal insurance retainers/attorney friends who could peruse this legally for me at very little personal cost. It’s not the route I want to go, I’m not litigious, but I’m trying to subtly hint to Ford that I am not the type of customer that will be walked over while their warranty is voided. I have a thread here about my carbon fiber wheel failure and inappropriate claim denial — took about 5 months but they paid $, and more than they would have if the claim was decided on in accordance with our contract in the first place. I could have made it a class action and recovered much more in court, but I’m not a huge fan of drawn out battles and headaches.

eta: and to be clear, nobody has told me track use did void anything yet, it is just a threat they brought up that the field service rep might decide this and that would be fords final decision (and require litigation after that).

 

[MikeR397]

????????
Your point was that Ford had to “prove” before denying claim
My reply was that it was bs and that you end up having to prove that they cannot deny the claim
Therefore, as you concede, you first have to retain legal counsel, possible file a lawsuit, all of that costing some serious $
I’m not opining on the potential merit of the suit, simply stating what happen in real life

Ford denies claim, customer files lawsuit. The burden in court then is placed on Ford to prove the mod (or track use ect) caused the failure and is appropriate to deny the warranty. It’s not a burden by preponderance of the evidence on the customer to prove it was benign.

companies love to void warranty claims, but the US has pro consumer oriented protection laws and the burden is not on the consumer in court.

almost all lemon/Magnuson attorneys don’t get paid by the customer, but by the company sued if they win per statute.If the attorney loses he gets nothing.

 

[racingandfishing]

almost all lemon/Magnuson attorneys don’t get paid by the customer, but by the company sued if they win per statute.If the attorney loses he gets nothing.
[/QUOTE]

Yes, but most of us don't have the advantage of being legally trained. I applaud you for your education. I just know from experience what the real costs are if you can't find a lawyer willing to take the case with the potential they may not be paid.

As far as class action, the last one that I was involved in had a $350 payout for the claim. A year down the road, I received a check for $26...less all legal fees, court costs, etc.!

Honestly, Ford should take care of all of the issues and I hope you get a great outcome.

Sponsored