Tramlining with new tires (MPS4S)

[marcusss]

Hello everyone,

First time posting here and recent buyer of a 2016 Mustang GT

I recently bought the car from a private seller and the car drove perfectly but I had noticed that the front tires were starting to bald so I moved my rear tires to the front and bought Michelin Pilot sport 4S's for the rear and have noticed some minor Tramlining since I have done this (previous owner had Kuhmo Ecsta PS91 all around and I NEVER noticed ANY tramlining at all with them) I'm wondering if the tramlining is potentially being caused by having Kuhmo's on the front and now Michelin's on the rear? Would switching to Pilots Sports 4's on the front too alleviate this? (As I see everyone's tramlining issues seem to be resolved by switching to these tires on all 4) Or is this just the inherent nature of the tire and would the Michelin Pilot Sport All season's reduce this?

The car was recently inspected by Ford and tbf they themselves couldn't even replicate my concern when driving it but assured all my suspension/alignment was perfect on the car ( so maybe it's just my overactive imagination lol)

Would appreciate any advice with this!

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[Skye]

Welcome.

To help with the discussion, what sized rims and tires are fitted to the car?

Is the suspension stock?

The front tires previously balding...across the face, evenly? Or a lot on one side or the other?

How did Ford confirm the alignment was good? Did they check and provide test results?

Thanks.

 

[Johnny maverick]

Most of the tramlining discussed on the forum is caused by the cup 2s and when replacing with ps4s it corrects the problem. I don't mind the tramlining. Keeps me on my toes and after 15mins I don't notice it.

 

[marcusss]

Car is Completely stock.

The tires are 265/35 ZR20 (99y) on all 4

Rims are 20 inch

Now that I remember, the front right tire was balding more than the left, but the left one was actually a Pireli P Zero.

Regardless, Ford just said that they couldn't find anything wrong with how it drove and said they checked suspension/struts/alignment/etc. they just told me it over the phone. (Car was driving perfectly before the new tires so I doubt it's anything mechanically related)

 

[Skye]

We've had a few tramlining threads over time; they typically involve two things: 1) a really wide tire or 2) a really sticky tire. Michelin Cup 2 tires for example.

A 265 profile tire wouldn't be an issue.

Many appreciate the Pilot 4Ss. They and Continental's Summer treads get good responses.

New to you, the car. Even though it wasn't tramlining before new tires, I'd like to baseline the suspension with an alignment. They can quantify the settings and give you the printout.

It's kind of a toss which tires to keep on which end. The newer tires could help with better steering, but also driving wheel traction. Follow your heart. Ideally it'd be nice to have four new tires, or two sets of the same manufacturer, close in tread depth.

Before and after the alignment, you could swap the tire ends and see if the condition improves.

If there is no change in tramlining, get the alignment to confirm settings. If tramlining is still an issue then, swap the tires once more, to see if this draws out any tells.

99% of new tires are fine. But some occasionally have a radial pull or something internal which makes them less than ideal. The information you would have gathered by then could support a replacement under warranty.

 

[NTXChris]

Definitely sounds alignment-related. Do yourself a favor and skip the dealer for alignments; the acceptable range for Ford's alignments is very large, and just because it's within acceptable range doesn't mean it's actually a good alignment.

Find a local independent shop, or better yet, a place that works on high performance or race cars. What you pay extra for their services is worth the better driving experience and longer tire life.

 

[Brisvegas]

2016 car likely to be higher mileage and therefore more likely to have some worn suspension components . Suggest getting a pro to check it over , repair as neccesary , then get a pro tech to do alignment . Avoid the nationwide shops unless you have a Known good operator . Stock Mustang suspensions are barely fit for purpose , definitely not " sports car " standard

 

[NightmareMoon]

Agree that a front control arm bushing could be out, and that having the control arms thoroughly inspected is a great idea.

What is the condition and afe of the PS91 rear which ia now on the front?

Older, balder tires will tramline worse regardless of the width.

In general and for a number of reasons you want to replace all four tires at the same time. Having teo different types and ages of tires on front and rear can cause odd behavior so yeah I’d buy two more… but also have things inspected, your car is getting up there in the years andthe rubber used in the front, rear, and rear subframe wears out, dries out, cracks, and lets the wheels shift about in a bad way.

 

[m3incorp]

Have you tried switching your new tires to the front axle to see if that solves the problem? If it does, then you know it is a tire problem. You did state that you put the older tires from the rear on the front. There is no telling how many burnouts those might have seen. Just a suggestion.

 

[SHOdaddy68]

My car drove great for years. Then, while changing the oil, I noticed the inside edges of both front tires were excessively worn. Not bad enough to run out and replace them, but I had the alignment checked/adjusted shortly after that. From that point on is when it started "tram-lining" pretty bad even though the alignment was corrected.

So, in my case, the unevenly worn front tires with a good alignment caused the issue. Once I replaced the tires, the issue went away.

 

[marcusss]

Thanks everyone for the advice, I really appreciate it.

Based on what I'm hearing, I guess my next step will be to get an alignment check at my local Firestone (I'm considering their lifetime alignment deal for any further issues with this) with a printout of how it's currently aligned. And see if I need to get an alignment (it could be the cause considering I bought the tires from Costco so I got them installed without any alignment).
I really don't know the first thing about alignments, are there any particular red flags to lookout for on the printout they give me that would attribute to Tramlining?

I guess I could always just upload the printout here when I have it.

I always thought a bad alignment would mean the car just sways toward one way (either left or right), not both ways like when tramlinning. I guess I have much to learn with this .

 

[SHOdaddy68]

You want the front tires adjusted so they are slightly "Toed-in" or narrower on the front of the tire. Mine is set at just under .1 toe in.

 

[Skye]

To whomever you take the vehicle to, do your research first. Google reviews, BBB checks, that kind of thing.

It doesn't read like you have any unique requirements for the car. With that, I'd just stick with the recommended Ford settings. The place you take the vehicle to should have a reference or database of those (caster, camber and toe).

They should provide you with a before and after printout of all readings, with the standard.

If the standard for one reading is 0 degrees, +/- .20 degrees, the objective is to get as close to 0 as possible. If one wheel is +.19 and the other side is -.05, while that is within specification, it could use some improving. Getting to 0 or closer might take some time, but that's what they're being paid to do. They might not reach 0, but don't let them test the limits of the standard either.

After the vehicle is placed on the platform and before the alignment is attempted, confirm the pressures are correct in the tires. While all four tires don't have to have the exact same appearance, they should have the same general wear, in pattern and tread depth. The fronts should look similar. The rears as a pair should also be quite close.

As part of the alignment, they should accomplish a good, general inspection of the suspension, wheels, tires, hubs, etc.

They may attempt to upsell you on parts. If they advise some bits need to be replaced, that might be true. Have them physically show you and provide and estimate. If the place is somewhere you've been to before, someone you can trust, consider having them accomplish the work. If not, or you're not sure, have them get the alignment as close as possible, pause and take the estimate. You can return to this thread for additional guidance on parts replacement, if needed.

99% of the time, an alignment is simply that: the current settings are poor or on the edge and need a bit of spiffing up.

Good Luck.

 

[Unbridled5.0]

My car tram lined since new, to varying degrees, depending on the severity of the road surface, with the factory 255 pzero all seasons. By 15k miles, I'd had enough of the factory BS suspension and went full steeda. One of those changes was adding a g-trac brace. That piece 100% fixed tram lining, even with the same wheel/tires as before.

I'm not telling you your alignment is OK or that it needs tweaked, only an alignment specialist with your car on the rack should do that, I'm just reporting my experience to put more data out there for the group. GL getting it straightened out!

 

[GrabberBargeCaptain]

i run a tiny amount of toe out in the front and the only tramlining i get is on those road divider bumps. the ones that blind people use so they can drive.

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