Traction Control Off combined with Track Mode?

[GTP]

I spend all my track time in Track Mode, but I have never used the toggle to switch Traction Control off.
How much difference is there with TC on or off? What should I expect on track? If it reduces understeer during maintenance throttle in long sweepers then I'm all for it!

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[tosha]

Track Mode without touching TC switch = advancetrac still on. You need to hold tc switch for close to 10 seconds to disable advancetrac. I've tried both on a skidpad, and Track mode + full tc off results in no intervention of driver's suppors whatsoever. The car will slide and spin as much as you push it. Track mode and no touching of tc switch - car would still slide but advancetrac would do some late intervention and corrections. Snap oversteer and spinouts are a thing regardless of it on or off.

Never tried full off on track, don't have enough trust in myself. To be honest, I never felt advancetrac intervention, but it's just me and my level of driving. I had few instances of me forgetting to switch from normal to track mode and I could feel that something is not right pretty quickly. Regular tc is just too intrusive.

PS I don't think advancetrac on or off would make any difference in long sweepers, unless you pass them sideways. That's just a guess though.

 

[Scootsmcgreggor]

TC off vs on will not have an effect in reducing understeer while on maintenance throttle in a sweeper. For that you need to adjust your suspension setup, aero setup, and/or driving style.

Tc in these cars works quite well for correcting low slip angles, catching the back when it comes out slowly, or had an otherwise weird yaw moment. But on track the back can come out quickly and unless you are confident with your own skill set you can keep it out of the wall then best to leave it in track mode.

Also when you get to the point you’re driving constantly with a bit of yaw/Slip angle TC will be kicking in constantly, slowing you down and killing your rear brakes. To be blunt you’ll know when you’re running into this constantly. If you are not sure you are not there yet.

 

[GTP]

TC off vs on will not have an effect in reducing understeer while on maintenance throttle in a sweeper. For that you need to adjust your suspension setup, aero setup, and/or driving style.

Tc in these cars works quite well for correcting low slip angles, catching the back when it comes out slowly, or had an otherwise weird yaw moment. But on track the back can come out quickly and unless you are confident with your own skill set you can keep it out of the wall then best to leave it in track mode.

Also when you get to the point you’re driving constantly with a bit of yaw/Slip angle TC will be kicking in constantly, slowing you down and killing your rear brakes. To be blunt you’ll know when you’re running into this constantly. If you are not sure you are not there yet.

Good info, thanks.

I've caught a couple of tank slappers coming out of slower turns. And one on track full spin so far.

I stopped using Sport mode some time ago because it felt as though the car was understeering.

I may try TC off sometime just to see if anything seems different. But yeah, if it doesn't change the car balance and helps when things are about to get out of control then I'll leave it on.

 

[Andy13186]

For me , its a massive difference. I have to have tcs toggled off in track mode or else there is some torque management killing power on shifts even at 100+ mph and I get a flashing TCS light. I do have 770 rwhp though, not stock. But I can do 600 foot burnouts if I toggle TCS off while in track mode. When I toggle it it says TCS off even though the TCS off light is illuminated when in track mode, it doesnt say advancetrac off and I think there is still some advancetrac on. This is the mode I use 100% of the time.

This was not true when NA though. Sport mode with TCS off was fine when I was NA , could do huge burnouts as long as I stayed straight enough.

 

[tosha]

For me , its a massive difference. I have to have tcs toggled off in track mode or else there is some torque management killing power on shifts even at 100+ mph and I get a flashing TCS light. I do have 770 rwhp though, not stock. But I can do 600 foot burnouts if I toggle TCS off while in track mode. When I toggle it it says TCS off even though the TCS off light is illuminated when in track mode, it doesnt say advancetrac off and I think there is still some advancetrac on. This is the mode I use 100% of the time.

This was not true when NA though. Sport mode with TCS off was fine when I was NA , could do huge burnouts as long as I stayed straight enough.

And this is related to HPDE and/or road course drivng exactly how?

 

[GTP]

It's not, but all contributions are still welcome.

 

[NightmareMoon]

It's not, but all contributions are still welcome.

auto car or manual? Magneride or not?

One downside to track mode is the aggressive throttle mapping makes it a lot harder to modulate the throttle at the limit, so if you don’t need it for magneride shock settings or auto shift points, I’d advise to leave it in normal. The rear coming out exiting slow corners is a good example of the overly aggressive throttle map in track mode.

as stated, TC/AdvanceTrak on or off wont reduce understeer, but if you’re experienced at riding the limit w/o the nannies, it can be faster with them off, but you’re going to be practiced at balancing wheel slip with foot and hand inputs w/o the assisted help cause its all on you to catch it when (not if) it starts to come around.

 

[GTP]

A10 with magneride, and paddle shifting.

I don't have trouble with the throttle in track in mode. However I've heard PS4s, while not the grippiest, at least broadcast their limit, which I've also been experiencing.

 

[GTP]

Also when you get to the point you’re driving constantly with a bit of yaw/Slip angle TC will be kicking in constantly, slowing you down and killing your rear brakes. To be blunt you’ll know when you’re running into this constantly. If you are not sure you are not there yet.

Circling back to this comment...

This was my conclusion with Sport mode. The car did not feel free and it understeered a bit. I think I recall that the rear brakes seemed to run hotter.

My car feels close to neutral but still slightly understeer in sweepers. IOW the fronts seem to be the limiter for those 50-60mph sweepers.

This is why I was asking if TC could be contributing to that in any way at all.

 

[NightmareMoon]

My car feels close to neutral but still slightly understeer in sweepers. IOW the fronts seem to be the limiter for those 50-60mph sweepers.

This is why I was asking if TC could be contributing to that in any way at all.

No, not really TC. The fronts are usually the limit with stock cars (understeer tuned in from the factory setup) with some combination of stagger bias, factory alignment, and swaybar balance contributing to it.

If the MP4S (or any street tire) is tracked too much with too little camber, then tire shoulder temperatures and wear become a grip issue. They're not bad tires, but they aren't really intended as track tires. Usually the front grip goes first. You can feel that with stock camber as the tire heats up past its optimal temperature range on track, as the MP4S will do.

Tire pressures are similar. If the pressures are too far off, getting those right can help.

Soo... What you really want is more front camber, and/or wider front wheels & tires (esp if you're on a staggered setup) for more mechanical front grip.

Sometimes you can use front and rear swaybars to balance it, but they don't add grip so much as allow you to reduce grip in the rear with stiffer rear bars. Some people will tell you that you need a bigger front swaybar (and that's not entirely wrong), but you could say the same thing about springs rate choices and shock valving choices, so I'll leave all of those aside for now. Just a big front bar to an otherwise stock car is not going to fix understeer.

 

[tosha]

One downside to track mode is the aggressive throttle mapping makes it a lot harder to modulate the throttle at the limit

That's an interesting observation and note, because throttle calibration for track mode seem to be dependent on a model year or something else - my car is 2021 and track mode has the most linear mapping, best suited for actual track use. Sport mode is completely idiotic and I don't like to use it at all. I saw other people reporting similar difference on the forum, and model year seems to be the only difference with "older" cars having aggressive mapping and newer being very linear.

 

[GTP]

No, not really TC. The fronts are usually the limit with stock cars (understeer tuned in from the factory setup) with some combination of stagger bias, factory alignment, and swaybar balance contributing to it.

If the MP4S (or any street tire) is tracked too much with too little camber, then tire shoulder temperatures and wear become a grip issue. They're not bad tires, but they aren't really intended as track tires. Usually the front grip goes first. You can feel that with stock camber as the tire heats up past its optimal temperature range on track, as the MP4S will do.

Tire pressures are similar. If the pressures are too far off, getting those right can help.

Soo... What you really want is more front camber, and/or wider front wheels & tires (esp if you're on a staggered setup) for more mechanical front grip.

Sometimes you can use front and rear swaybars to balance it, but they don't add grip so much as allow you to reduce grip in the rear with stiffer rear bars. Some people will tell you that you need a bigger front swaybar (and that's not entirely wrong), but you could say the same thing about springs rate choices and shock valving choices, so I'll leave all of those aside for now. Just a big front bar to an otherwise stock car is not going to fix understeer.

Thank you for all the extra information. I knew all that already. I've done all those things to my car, and even tried running 2psi lower in the front.

Anyway this thread is about whether TC has any effect on car balance when used with Track Mode.

 

[Dana Pants]

Anyway this thread is about whether TC has any effect on car balance when used with Track Mode.

If you yeet the car to intentionally rotate on entry, the Nannies will punish you into understeer. The punishment should feel quite obvious.

if you feed the wheel more deliberately, the Nannies might not intervene on entry.

On turn exit, i can’t comment because I never got that far before unplugged the connector by the airbox.

 

[NeverSatisfied]

Absolutely makes a difference.. Once you get to where you’re maximizing grip and slip angle across all four tires and not just plowing the fronts, you’ll find it will reign you in more than desired.

flip side is it’ll happily let you loop it on corner exit when off.

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