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Traction control bad for the motor when boosted?

Andy13186

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Ive heard from my tuner and installer that having TCS on can be bad for the motor. What do you guys think? Harmful to the motor to keep TCS on and have it kick in often? I would hope it wouldn't be harmful but it would definitely kick in a lot. I usually keep tcs off but advancetrac on.
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K4fxd

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Bouncing it off the rev limiter is not good, TC not so much.
 

Louk

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what was his reason for saying tc could cause damage?
 

engineermike

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I’ve actually seen some “popular” tunes that allowed fuel enleanment for traction control. If this is you, then he is right.
 
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Andy13186

Andy13186

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I’ve actually seen some “popular” tunes that allowed fuel enleanment for traction control. If this is you, then he is right.
Why would they do this if its harmful and there is another option?

Here is what they said

"Traction control cuts fuel and spark, when that happens and you stay on the throttle you will cause it to run lean causing it to knock and potently blow up
even with the radials on we recommend unplugging it and if you see the TC light flash just lift "

Not sure why they would change it from the stock method, any idea why?
 

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markmurfie

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https://forum.hptuners.com/showthread.php?66830-Fuel-Cut-Torque-Ratio-Questions

See post 6.

A tuner would have to intentionally cause it to use enleanment over spark, and it would be arguably safer.
RPM limits, Decel, and security it has more authority over fuel. That's because a fuel cut is slower and less hash than a fast spark cut and easier on rotating parts. Its like a hammer, similar to detonation.
Traction control usually cuts out spark and has a time period for it to come back in. Like half a second or something pretty soft. If you ever watched traction control from a motec car, its a lot quicker and more violent than that, like ABS in reverse. If a tuner modified that exit time, it could work better, but be harder on the rotating parts.
 
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Jackson1320

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Why would they do this if its harmful and there is another option?

Here is what they said

"Traction control cuts fuel and spark, when that happens and you stay on the throttle you will cause it to run lean causing it to knock and potently blow up
even with the radials on we recommend unplugging it and if you see the TC light flash just lift "

Not sure why they would change it from the stock method, any idea why?
Get a new tuner fast because that is not how it works and a tuner should be able to have it cut spark or throttle or both long before cutting fuel
 

engineermike

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I have many logs where TC activated. In almost every log, the throttle was cut and spark/fuel were left alone. However, in one particular log the pcm decided to reduce torque using SAI (fast-path) and leaned out lambda instead of throttling air. I haven’t found an explanation as to how TC determines when to use throttle (slow) vs when to use SAI (fast), but in my car it uses throttle most of the time. Of course, this is preferable to me and totally safe.

That said, if the tune is set up properly then enleanment, even at wot, should still be safe. There is a borderline knock lambda correction table where spark timing is adjusted as a function of lambda. I’ve seen oem tunes where it can pull upwards of 5 deg of timing if it goes lean. The problem is I’ve seen this table zeroed out in aftermarket tunes from multiple suppliers, which totally strips away any protection it may have bought you.

When the pcm decides to reduce torque below driver demand, it can use slow (throttle) or fast (SAI) or both. If fast is chosen, then it will first reduce spark timing, then lean it out, then start cutting cylinders until it gets the reduction it wants. This even happens every time you roll out of the throttle. The enleanment portion appears to have been phased out of oem tunes around 2015, I suspect due to nox emissions limits. I think what happened in my tune was that the tuner misunderstood the fuel cut torque ratio table. He thought he was making it safer by disabling fuel cut, but by doing so he allowed enleanment (the table is easy to misinterpret). Cut is generally safer than enleanment.
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