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Track Time Limited due to High CHT

NeverSatisfied

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I was out on the street again today hammering around and reached 212CHT

But yeah I’m going to pull off the fascia this week and have a look at helping the air flow.
besides an immense amount of air getting around your radiator, that mishi oil cooler setup (besides being undersized) just hangs in no man’s land from what I remember. It’s killing efficiency—you need to add ducting to the oil cooler and then from the oil cooler up to the condenser.
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TeeLew

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I *assume* Ford designed the coyote to use a 180 Tstat for street driving, and (as was just pointed out) making the engine run a bit cooler with a 160 Tstat is not optimal to them.
Do I have to actually write it?

Higher engine temps improve emissions readings. It doesn't improve performance. It's not that Ford is wrong by running the engine hot. They just had different priorities.
 
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Hack

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Do I have to actually write it?

Higher engine temps improve emissions readings. It doesn't improve performance. It's not that Ford is wrong by running the engine hot. They just had different priorities.
This is true, but I don't think anyone here is worried about getting an extra 5-10 HP from a slightly cooler engine. They just want the engine temperature to stay within its normal operating range during a track event so that the ECU doesn't shut down your fun time.

What you need is for the cooling system to be able to keep up with the waste heat the engine is generating. It doesn't matter what temperature the thermostat is designed for if the cooling system can't keep up. Every lap the temperature will get higher until it's too high and the ECU pulls power.
 

GTP

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Do I have to actually write it?

Higher engine temps improve emissions readings. It doesn't improve performance. It's not that Ford is wrong by running the engine hot. They just had different priorities.
Actually, according to thermodynamics, energy produced is proportional to the difference in inlet (combustion) and outlet (ambient) temperature. The combustion temp is fixed, but not ambient. For example, Indycars make more power on cool days, but might not have the same traction to use it.

TBH, the power difference with temp is still small.
 

bnightstar

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Actually, according to thermodynamics, energy produced is proportional to the difference in inlet (combustion) and outlet (ambient) temperature. The combustion temp is fixed, but not ambient. For example, Indycars make more power on cool days, but might not have the same traction to use it.

TBH, the power difference with temp is still small.
Not small enough when you chase 0.1 seconds you know. At my case I need 0.4 seconds to reach my goal of 1:05 lap time at my local track. No point for me running in July with 26+ C ambients.
 

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GTP

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Not small enough when you chase 0.1 seconds you know. At my case I need 0.4 seconds to reach my goal of 1:05 lap time at my local track. No point for me running in July with 26+ C ambients.
Fair enough. Only 10 track days for me so far. Must be requiring too many cooling mods in between, haha!

I still don't chase lap times. I don't even run high octane gas on track days!
I'd like to try that Garmin Catalyst setup, though, to help me with learning new tracks.
 

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TeeLew

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Actually, according to thermodynamics, energy produced is proportional to the difference in inlet (combustion) and outlet (ambient) temperature. The combustion temp is fixed, but not ambient. For example, Indycars make more power on cool days, but might not have the same traction to use it.

TBH, the power difference with temp is still small.
Tell me you don't know jack sh!t about this without telling you know jack sh!t about this.
 

TeeLew

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This is true, but I don't think anyone here is worried about getting an extra 5-10 HP from a slightly cooler engine. They just want the engine temperature to stay within its normal operating range during a track event so that the ECU doesn't shut down your fun time.

What you need is for the cooling system to be able to keep up with the waste heat the engine is generating. It doesn't matter what temperature the thermostat is designed for if the cooling system can't keep up. Every lap the temperature will get higher until it's too high and the ECU pulls power.
It's a lot more than 5-10 hp.

By keeping the engine cooler, you're also making the engine much less prone to detonation, which is a legitimate engine killer. It's also worth mentioning that the block and crank aren't made of the same material, so when you run the engine hot, the clearances get a lot bigger than we'd want and it starts rattling around.

There are all sorts of reasons to keep the engine cool on track. I honestly don't care if you believe me. Do what you want.
 

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It's a lot more than 5-10 hp.

By keeping the engine cooler, you're also making the engine much less prone to detonation, which is a legitimate engine killer. It's also worth mentioning that the block and crank aren't made of the same material, so when you run the engine hot, the clearances get a lot bigger than we'd want and it starts rattling around.

There are all sorts of reasons to keep the engine cool on track. I honestly don't care if you believe me. Do what you want.
The engine components are designed to fit together best when the engine temperature is inside its normal operating range. If you operate the engine colder or hotter than that, you will have issues.
 

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ice445

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It's a lot more than 5-10 hp.

By keeping the engine cooler, you're also making the engine much less prone to detonation, which is a legitimate engine killer. It's also worth mentioning that the block and crank aren't made of the same material, so when you run the engine hot, the clearances get a lot bigger than we'd want and it starts rattling around.

There are all sorts of reasons to keep the engine cool on track. I honestly don't care if you believe me. Do what you want.
I can say for sure it's more than a few hp. When I locked out my grille shutters I dropped 20F in general usage. Went from 210f average cruising temp to 187. Stock thermostat, pp rad. With the same stock tune, I went from around 0 or -1 KR to -5 with no other changes. Getting 5 more degrees of timing is pretty huge and you can feel it for sure.
 

TeeLew

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The engine components are designed to fit together best when the engine temperature is inside its normal operating range. If you operate the engine colder or hotter than that, you will have issues.
Every single one of our engines runs at ~180-190 degrees every time we run it. That is plenty warm enough for the car to show normal operating temp. You don't get bonus points for running it 40-50 degrees hotter and it is not good for anything involved. There is literally no advantage and a laundry list of negatives.

Once again for the cheap seats. You do not have to put the engine into limp mode to be running it too hot, especially on track. If you're too lazy or just don't care to change it, that's on you. It it just laughable to claim somehow you *shouldn't* change it.
 

NeverSatisfied

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Every single one of our engines runs at ~180-190 degrees every time we run it. That is plenty warm enough for the car to show normal operating temp. You don't get bonus points for running it 40-50 degrees hotter and it is not good for anything involved. There is literally no advantage and a laundry list of negatives.

Once again for the cheap seats. You do not have to put the engine into limp mode to be running it too hot, especially on track. If you're too lazy or just don't care to change it, that's on you. It it just laughable to claim somehow you *shouldn't* change it.
To the guy that can get their streetable, A/C not removed car to run 180-190F at the track--you get a gold star from me.

I made one last pass to duct the shit out of my car last weekend. Looks like an art project of aluminum tape to get every nook and cranny sealed. PittRace yesterday. 80F and Humid. Heat Cycled 305mm RS4's. Consistent Shifting @ 7K. CHT ~205-210 with peaks of ~220. Oil stayed under 250.

I'm calling this one done.
 

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Question to those who have assembled the 12AN fittings/lines - how tight should this gap be? I'm concerned that if I keep pushing it, I will strip the threads, it's getting real tight.

20230812_230722.jpg
 

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Question to those who have assembled the 12AN fittings/lines - how tight should this gap be? I'm concerned that if I keep pushing it, I will strip the threads, it's getting real tight.

20230812_230722.jpg
When I made them, tighten to a fingernail gap and you can still turn the end, but tight. That's what I do. I have bottomed them out to, never stripped one.
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