Track Time Limited due to High CHT

[NeverSatisfied]

In the absence of input from ford engineers we can make some reasonable conclusions based on what they have done previously. I think the best comparison would be the FP350S. That engine makes more power than most of our 5.0 coyotes and they determined that a big radiator and a Setrab 960 oil cooler both ducted and with hood vents provided sufficient cooling for road racing with 50hr engine life between overhauls. What temps does that yield in harsh conditions? Is the 50hr expected life due to cooling temps or other wear variables? Not sure. But with a similar setup in my car in 90* temps with a fairly small hood vent yields ~215-220CHT and 250 oil temp. A number of guys on TMO have run this setup for many thousands of track miles without issue. So I think its at least a fairly well laid out path to relative success. Can better be done, I'm sure. What cost and how many iterations if done otherwise? A number of people in this thread are on a path to finding out!

Just throwing it out there again since there's what feels like a lot of wheel re-inventing going on here.

I do agree that's the way to go for an easy button, but the only way this car makes sense for me is a dual purpose car with a/c. Unfortunately that requires coming up with an alternative solution for cooling.

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[GTP]

How many of such [OEM oil/water cooler] failures happened? I have yet to really see any on the GT/Boss setup. I've seen more GT350 failures which have the air to oil cooler.

Yes anything can happen, but I have a hard time believe the issue is as big as they make it seem.
...

I actually did a search of the forum for "oil cooler fail" and found only one failure thread. If it was a common problem (e.g. AC evaporator) then there would be multiple and long forum discussions.

And yes, "anything can happen" meaning there are many other parts and systems that can fail.

 

[Scootsmcgreggor]

I do agree that's the way to go for an easy button, but the only way this car makes sense for me is a dual purpose car with a/c. Unfortunately that requires coming up with an alternative solution for cooling.

Yeah good point, much harder if keeping A/C.

 

[TeeLew]

That's what i said and was told to "please stop".

It was $3500. If my recommendations are unrealistic, then what exactly was that one?

 

[tosha]

It was $3500. If my recommendations are unrealistic, then what exactly was that one?

So what exactly are you recommending, aside from 195F of something as a target?

 

[bnightstar]

How many of such failures happened? I have yet to really see any on the GT/Boss setup. I've seen more GT350 failures which have the air to oil cooler.

I don't know how many but even 1 such case is enough to want me to remove that ticking time bomb out of my car.

 

[EFI]

I don't know how many but even 1 such case is enough to want me to remove that ticking time bomb out of my car.

Ok, but is the replacement 100% fail proof? Because even if there's 1 failure of those then what's the point?

And also, is everything else ever 100% fail proof? I've seen bone stock Coyote engines fail...does that mean it's a ticking time bomb that needs to be replaced? I've seen bone stock MT82s fail...are you going to replace that ticking time bomb?

By your point, if any part of the car fails even once ever in its history it has to be replaced?

 

[bnightstar]

Ok, but is the replacement 100% fail proof? Because even if there's 1 failure of those then what's the point?

And also, is everything else ever 100% fail proof? I've seen bone stock Coyote engines fail...does that mean it's a ticking time bomb that needs to be replaced? I've seen bone stock MT82s fail...are you going to replace that ticking time bomb?

By your point, if any part of the car fails even once ever in its history it has to be replaced?

The MT82 is a ticking time bomb for sure for 3.5 season on track I fixed 2 oil leaks of that PoS hardware.

Coyote to be fair aren't the whole point of this thread to keep it out of destroying itself because of heat ?

My point is if a part worth 300-500$ could destroy a part worth 3000-6000$ is better to replace it to prevent further damage.

 

[67Fast_V]

Ok, but is the replacement 100% fail proof? Because even if there's 1 failure of those then what's the point?

And also, is everything else ever 100% fail proof? I've seen bone stock Coyote engines fail...does that mean it's a ticking time bomb that needs to be replaced? I've seen bone stock MT82s fail...are you going to replace that ticking time bomb?

By your point, if any part of the car fails even once ever in its history it has to be replaced?

We all come at this a little differently. We have different perspectives, different concerns, different priorities, different goals, and a different risk tolerance ... but it's all good guys. So no worries.

I think we all do have 1 goal in mind and that is to enjoy the car and the fruits of our hardwork. Expense hobby and it takes some financial band width. So what you all are doing most can't do. It's a heck of a way have fun and learn stuff (... my opinion of course )

 

[GTP]

...

My point is if a part worth 300-500$ could destroy a part worth 3000-6000$ is better to replace it to prevent further damage.

The scheme I am about to implement is to piggyback a ~60kBTU auxiliary cooler onto the OEM cooler. That still leaves me the option to delete it (OEM) later if I decide to do so.

 

[EFI]

My point is if a part worth 300-500$ could destroy a part worth 3000-6000$ is better to replace it to prevent further damage.

But that 300-500$ can also destroy your engine, it's not fool proof either. There's more things to fail and leak in that system than in the OEM GT system, as seen in the GT350 oil cooler failures which are much more pronounced than the GT/Boss oil cooler failures.

My point is, run the unit that is going to be the more reliable piece to protect your 3000-6000$ engine. And the GT oil cooler has been proven to be much more reliable than the GT350 one. If the GT oil cooler was such a bad unit that you see posts and TSBs all over the place, I would agree with you. But that's why I asked, because honestly I haven't seen any such posts besides that one video from Australia. The GT350 cooler failure I've seen alot, and even Ford has made statements about it.

 

[GTP]

...
as seen in the GT350 oil cooler failures which are much more pronounced than the GT/Boss oil cooler failures.
...
And the GT oil cooler has been proven to be much more reliable than the GT350 one. If the GT oil cooler was such a bad unit that you see posts and TSBs all over the place, I would agree with you. But that's why I asked, because honestly I haven't seen any such posts besides that one video from Australia. The GT350 cooler failure I've seen alot, and even Ford has made statements about it.

@EFI when you say GT350 oil cooler, do you mean the auxiliary oil/air cooler in the bumper?
Does the 350 also have a water/oil cooler?

 

[EFI]

@EFI when you say GT350 oil cooler, do you mean the auxiliary oil/air cooler in the bumper?
Does the 350 also have a water/oil cooler?

Yes the air to oil cooler in the bumper, they don't have a water to oil as the GTs.

The 350 having such a big issue and recall on this is more of a exception rather the rule, but still it shows that such a cooler is not without problems and/or failures. If anything, it has more points of failure that can lead to a catastrophical engine failure vs. a water to oil unit.

If a GT cooler fails at one of the many connections and/or lines, it just leaks coolant but the engine lives for a while. If a GT350 (or any other air to oil cooler) fails at any of the fittings or lines, it means a destroyed engine rather quickly.

 

[GTP]

Hmm interesting.
Well, 5.2L and 8200 rpm redline with a 1 square foot air/oil cooler describes a ticking time bomb to me!

 

[TeeLew]

Hmm interesting.
Well, 5.2L and 8200 rpm redline with a 1 square foot air/oil cooler describes a ticking time bomb to me!

Get a Setrab and mount it correctly. It is very, very common to run an external air-to-air oil cooler on any sort of track car. Stop with the paranoia.

https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/pdfs/SetrabApplicationSuggestions.pdf

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