Timing Loss After Headers and Kmember

[WIST2019GT]

I upgraded my exhaust this week moving from completely stock to 1-7/8 long tubes and no cats - stock resonater (suitcase) and stock catback. I also installed a tubular kmember at the same time (it made the headers SUPER easy to do). I did a pull last night to log the car and it seems to have a weird timing situation. Previously the car was seeing 22 degrees up top (PBD tuned on e85) and during the pull I can see the timing flip to 7 then ramp in to 13 but nothing more. I didnt see any knock, so Im not really sure what caused it. I also am not a tuner, so I figured sharing the log here might help find some answers or ideas. I did also send the log to PBD to see if they had thoughts.

I had to zip the file to upload it. Unzip it and you should be able to load it in VCM.

Sponsored

 

[Stephen@lethal]

I won't be able to take a look at the file till later, but what is the knock sensor showing? Its possible you are seeing false knock and its dropping timing.

 

[WIST2019GT]

I won't be able to take a look at the file till later, but what is the knock sensor showing? Its possible you are seeing false knock and its dropping timing.

I did not see any knock in the log.

 

[WIST2019GT]

I reviewed the logs a little more and I can see some messages that pop up that seem to indicate this is in the tune. Right when the timing change happens, I can see:

~4900RPM - MAF Sensor Saturated is reported in Driver Demand Limit Source
- Timing drops from 19 to 7 by 5400RPM
- Timing recovers to 14 by 5600
- No knock recorded during this time

I also see:
Comb. Stab. Limit.
Turbo FMEM (not sure why this is even in here since its a V8???)
Failsafe Cooling
Insufficent Fuel Flow (pressure never gets below 52.7 PSI?)

Tuning is the worst.

 

[Cobra Jet]

Check any and all wiring harnesses in the vicinity of the headers and K-member. If the issue was not present before your modifications, then the issue lies with something affected during the R&R of the modifications.

Make sure all connectors to any harnesses are 100% secure. Check for any chafed conduit on the harnesses and if need be, check the actual wires within the conduit, because they could be damaged.

My first guess, since your thinking it’s “timing” related may be the crankshaft position sensor harness, which is located at the rear and near where header R&Ring would be happening. Check that harness and make sure it’s not damaged. Pull the connector off the CPS and make sure the pins in the connector are not damaged. If you don’t see any damages or loose pins in the connector, press it back onto the CPS and make sure it’s tight.

VCT’s would affect timing/idle too, but that would have to be total coincidence with the mods you did…

There’s the cam sensor too, so I’ll toss in this tech if you need it. Go to the CAM sensor and make sure that the connector to it is pushed on all the way and is not loose.

Here’s 2 threads regarding the CAM sensor:
https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/cam-shaft-position-timing-over-retarded.162915/

https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/diagnosing-4-codes-p0340-344-345-349.146012/#post-2989195

 

[Unas2k5]

Did you figure the issue out? I was curious if there could be issues with the tune.

 

[WIST2019GT]

I got a revision and have not had an issue since. Seems like the car hit a load table in the tune that caused the timing change.

 

[Angrey]

I got a revision and have not had an issue since. Seems like the car hit a load table in the tune that caused the timing change.

So basically with the improved flow, it was enough to trigger one of the torque management nanny/safety limits and pull timing?

 

[DougS550]

So basically with the improved flow, it was enough to trigger one of the torque management nanny/safety limits and pull timing?

Wow, headers must really make a difference in flow. And for the people who say you don't need a tune for header install, I question by not having a tune with them limits your performance, not helps it.

 

[DougS550]

I got a revision and have not had an issue since. Seems like the car hit a load table in the tune that caused the timing change.

Great to hear. BTW, what headers did you go with and have you taken it back to the track to see if you have trap speed or lower ETs? Good Luck

 

[WIST2019GT]

So basically with the improved flow, it was enough to trigger one of the torque management nanny/safety limits and pull timing?

Maybe? The car doesnt feel any faster to be honest and the 60-130 only improved .06 from my previous best. Obviously there are a lot of variables for that one test but I assumed I would have seen a pretty decent gain but it doesnt seem so at the moment.

 

[WIST2019GT]

Great to hear. BTW, what headers did you go with and have you taken it back to the track to see if you have trap speed or lower ETs? Good Luck

I have TSP long tubes with offroad pipes. I haven't been back to the track yet.

 

[DougS550]

I have TSP long tubes with offroad pipes. I haven't been back to the track yet.

Thanks, Keep us posted

Sponsored