The true reason unveild behind Gen3 coyote tick. According to MPR racing engines

[CrashOverride]

Then I guess anyone without an engineering degree shouldn't be building engines. My posting was not to discredit anyone in particular, but as he is mentioned in the title of this post. I think before anyone can attest to what the Real reason is they had better prove it with a Solution. I guess posting in a thread like this is just as Assinine as the continued posting of threads like this with nothing more than conjecture being stated. All a thread like this does is scare away potential buyers. There is no factual data on how many engines are affected nor if this tick isn't normal. But I'll take one guess here, I'll bet everyone that has encountered this has changed their oil Way sooner then the the recommended interval that either Ford recommends or the idiot gauge tells you.

I think you might have misunderstand what I said. If I wasn't clear, I apologize. I would say that building engines is different than troubleshooting a running engine. There are some outstanding engine builders who developed fixes after the problem is identified, so I don't think engineering degrees are required, but at the same token, the engine builder definitely needs to know engineering philosophies and even more about how metals interact with each other (Technically materials engineering here). Allow me to give an example:

The Viper has an oil starvation problem. It manifested itself as rods breaking and horrific bearing scarring. When the engines were torn down, the wristpin was very tight in the piston. So diagnosing that is fairly trivial. The solution was realizing that the bearings weren't oiled well enough because of how the crank journals were drilled, essentially allowing too much oil flow in one bearing at the expense of the other. Greg good figured out that if one of the crank oil holes were plugged, it would allow for more flow up into the rod. He didn't need to have an engineering degree to do that, but he wasn't diagnosing engine sounds that didn't cause observable failures (Not that there aren't failures here, but have they been directly caused by the noises is yet to be found). He did employ mechanical engineering principles though because if you look, he chamfered the hole he plugged so the edge of the hole didn't scrape the bearing. Likewise, he used materials engineering to use a hardened material (set screw) as it is similar in terms of expansion for heat.

http://thevipergarage.com/index.php?topic=5262.0

I hope that makes sense and I wasn't trying to discredit anyone's idea - I think we as a group of mustang owners are full of very smart people and everyone is just trying to figure out the problem by brainstorming different ideas, especially since FoMoCo is being tight-lipped about the problem. Conjecture/Assumptions/Educated guesses are part of the troubleshooting process. To be honest, that's what Ford is doing right now. If the engineers knew what the problem was - even if they were forced to sign off on a lousy design, when the warranty claims started rolling in, they would them have to figure out a way to fix the problem...and I can tell you that it began with a room full of angry engineers making a bunch of guesses.

As far as it scaring people off, you are probably right, but wouldn't you, as a perspective buyer, want to know if your BVW Maximus has a faulty muffler bearing? (Made up stuff so as to not point a finger at any one car/company). Scaring people off, though, is sometimes a good idea. It forces manufacturers to stop cutting corners. "Hey, I guess we can't fit that square peg in the round hole by hitting it hard enough". I would be shocked if Ford isn't actually reading this thread. I know SRT engineers did on the SRTForums pages because they actually had Q&A sessions. Ford is probably trying to find out:

• How people are destroying the engines
• (I'm being frank here) "Who" is destroying their engines -- to deny warranty claims (Yes, I'm being serious, SRT does this right now)
• And if their fixes worked in real life
• And, if people talk about how XYZ Racing Shop did ABC to the engine and it magically fixed the problem.

Again, I'm sorry if you thought I was saying the idea was ill-conceived. I was just trying to say that it isn't as easy as one might originally think it would be.

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[barron64]

My car developed the tick at around 3K miles on the factory fill. Performed first oil change at 4400 miles using Mobile 1, 5w-30... No change in tick at cold start or a warm restart. Added one bottle of Ceratec and tick totally gone. Engine is running great and very quiet at idle. Now approaching 5K miles on the second oil change with no ticking.
Beginning to think this is a similar issue the Powerstroke 6.7 owners have experienced...The videos I have seen on the powerstroke typewriter tick, sounds identical to the coyote tick.

 

[Anthony 05 GT]

GT Pony, I'm not trying get get into a pissing match over the definition. I have already in a previous post said I see what the proper term is. My point was the fact that many people in the industry use both terms, right or wrong. I'd say this subject is settled.

 

[88lx50]

Did you run the engine awhile before adding the Ceratec to see if it ticked without the additive?

No -I just did it at the same time.

 

[CrashOverride]

This is an interesting YouTube feed where the person performs some fairly decent testing on Ceratec. (He tests a lot of other additives as well). I'm not saying that his tests on a $200 lawnmower engine correlate to a $10,000 high performance engine, but I found it interesting nevertheless. He's relatively modest about offering his opinions, and I would have liked to see a microscopic measurement of the scoring...But, I'm sure any of us on here will agree that nothing is going to permanently adhere to the scoring lines and withstand the harsh conditions of an engine.

I'm not saying it's useless though, because it did seem to reduce friction, which is a preventave thing, and maybe the reduced friction is what lessens/eliminates the tick? I would think that higher viscosity oils that seem to be helping people with the noise would offer a thicker film strength. How that affects friction is a little more complex, and I don't really know the answer. The thicker oil would require more energy to "push" up the cylinder and "scrape" downwards, but at the same time, might reduce metal to metal contact simply by adhering to the walls better which would reduce energy.

For those old enough to remember, I remember "DuraLube" and "Slick 50" and I added it to my oil all the time when they first came out. Granted at the time I was driving (for the most part) pieces of junk so any magic was worth trying. One exception was my Fiero GT in which she was pristine, and I did everything I could to keep her looking/running good.

 

[BlueCollarDaily]

Anyone want to hear what it sounds like progressing from the tick to actual knock please watch the latest video where I purposely left the camera mic NOT pointed at engine to lessen it....it's a complete cold to hot start cycle I'll save you time the tick becomes a knock around the 4min timeframe and really gets onerous when brought off idle around the 6.5 to7.5min and own marks as I bring it off idle and let it back down where you hear the rattle up and down the slight rev.....so I got tick 336 miles progressed to rattle and tick by 1200



Thanks
Shawn

 

[BlueCollarDaily]

Mine developed at 336 miles...it was not present at dealer with about 110 ish miles we got home late like a 4hr drive in stop and go , some trsffic...but I took the time to listen and record nothing .....
The very next morning 336miles after it's first true heat soak and cool down it was present ....it has progressed since to the knocking in my latest cold to hot start video especially off idle at 4mins tick goes to kmock and 6.5 onward when I take it off idle it's truly bad and this is purposely with mic NOT pointed at pan to lessen sensitivity.....factory oil factory filter......

Then I guess anyone without an engineering degree shouldn't be building engines. My posting was not to discredit anyone in particular, but as he is mentioned in the title of this post. I think before anyone can attest to what the Real reason is they had better prove it with a Solution. I guess posting in a thread like this is just as Assinine as the continued posting of threads like this with nothing more than conjecture being stated. All a thread like this does is scare away potential buyers. There is no factual data on how many engines are affected nor if this tick isn't normal. But I'll take one guess here, I'll bet everyone that has encountered this has changed their oil Way sooner then the the recommended interval that either Ford recommends or the idiot gauge tells you.

 

[gmupatriot]

This is an interesting YouTube feed where the person performs some fairly decent testing on Ceratec. (He tests a lot of other additives as well). I'm not saying that his tests on a $200 lawnmower engine correlate to a $10,000 high performance engine, but I found it interesting nevertheless. He's relatively modest about offering his opinions, and I would have liked to see a microscopic measurement of the scoring...But, I'm sure any of us on here will agree that nothing is going to permanently adhere to the scoring lines and withstand the harsh conditions of an engine.

I'm not saying it's useless though, because it did seem to reduce friction, which is a preventave thing, and maybe the reduced friction is what lessens/eliminates the tick? I would think that higher viscosity oils that seem to be helping people with the noise would offer a thicker film strength. How that affects friction is a little more complex, and I don't really know the answer. The thicker oil would require more energy to "push" up the cylinder and "scrape" downwards, but at the same time, might reduce metal to metal contact simply by adhering to the walls better which would reduce energy.

For those old enough to remember, I remember "DuraLube" and "Slick 50" and I added it to my oil all the time when they first came out. Granted at the time I was driving (for the most part) pieces of junk so any magic was worth trying. One exception was my Fiero GT in which she was pristine, and I did everything I could to keep her looking/running good.

I have watched this guy review Ceratec as well and I agree that we have no way of knowing if his test on a mower will result in something similar to a 4 stroke high performance engine.

From personal experience, when I added Ceratec to my 2018 Gt at 17,xxx miles, it got rid of the ticking/tapping at idle right away. The 2K rattle on the other hand is still there and has been since new. In fact, when the car is sitting all day or night and I start it and drive away within a couple of minutes of idle time, I hear this fluttering sound when lifting my foot off the gas while around 1200 to 2000RMs. This does go away rather quickly when the oil and engine start to heat up (within 5 minutes usually). I have 20,xxx miles on the car now and I just live with the 2K rattle. Its not as loud as some others have posted videos of but it certainly can be heard when putting a very light load on the engine at around 2000-2800 RPM. I use PUP 5W-20 in conjunction with 2 bottles of Ceratec. I bought 2 bottles of Ceratec and added one and it got rid of the tick, I had the other one sitting so I figured might as well add it since 1 is for 5qts of oil etc. Anyway, when I do my next oil change, I wont be adding Ceratec and will switch to PUP 5W-30 and just live with the car and enjoy it. The engine has not consumed much oil if any and runs hard.

 

[GT Pony]

GT Pony, I'm not trying get get into a pissing match over the definition. I have already in a previous post said I see what the proper term is. My point was the fact that many people in the industry use both terms, right or wrong. I'd say this subject is settled.

The bottom line is that people using "galley" when talking about oil passages are wrong. Lots of people using the wrong term for something doesn't make it the correct term, it just makes a lot of people wrong.

 

[302@12psi]

That's awful sounding. I am guessing if we can hear the 2k rattle over the radio and exhaust it has to be really bad closer to the engine.

 

[GT Pony]

Mine developed at 336 miles...it was not present at dealer with about 110 ish miles we got home late like a 4hr drive in stop and go , some trsffic...but I took the time to listen and record nothing .....
The very next morning 336miles after it's first true heat soak and cool down it was present ....it has progressed since to the knocking in my latest cold to hot start video especially off idle at 4mins tick goes to kmock and 6.5 onward when I take it off idle it's truly bad and this is purposely with mic NOT pointed at pan to lessen sensitivity.....factory oil factory filter......

Something is definitely not right with those engine noises.

 

[BlueCollarDaily]

His test on MotorKote seem to be the best especially in the bearing load test he does it's hands down the best .....that's not account for long term ceramic bonding ECT but I guess fix the tap to sell to a girl thats not gonna put 15psi on it be best or to trade back in to Ford ......

But as Ive read any additive voids warranty might as well toss the blower and tune on as ceratec

I have watched this guy review Ceratec as well and I agree that we have no way of knowing if his test on a mower will result in something similar to a 4 stroke high performance engine.

From personal experience, when I added Ceratec to my 2018 Gt at 17,xxx miles, it got rid of the ticking/tapping at idle right away. The 2K rattle on the other hand is still there and has been since new. In fact, when the car is sitting all day or night and I start it and drive away within a couple of minutes of idle time, I hear this fluttering sound when lifting my foot off the gas while around 1200 to 2000RMs. This does go away rather quickly when the oil and engine start to heat up (within 5 minutes usually). I have 20,xxx miles on the car now and I just live with the 2K rattle. Its not as loud as some others have posted videos of but it certainly can be heard when putting a very light load on the engine at around 2000-2800 RPM. I use PUP 5W-20 in conjunction with 2 bottles of Ceratec. I bought 2 bottles of Ceratec and added one and it got rid of the tick, I had the other one sitting so I figured might as well add it since 1 is for 5qts of oil etc. Anyway, when I do my next oil change, I wont be adding Ceratec and will switch to PUP 5W-30 and just live with the car and enjoy it. The engine has not consumed much oil if any and runs hard.

 

[BlueCollarDaily]

Nope it's fine they all do that ......or I don't hear anything yells to other techs y'all year anything nope....hear no evil see no evil....lol...

Something is definitely not right with those engine noises.

 

[Condor1970]

Anyone want to hear what it sounds like progressing from the tick to actual knock please watch the latest video where I purposely left the camera mic NOT pointed at engine to lessen it....it's a complete cold to hot start cycle I'll save you time the tick becomes a knock around the 4min timeframe and really gets onerous when brought off idle around the 6.5 to7.5min and own marks as I bring it off idle and let it back down where you hear the rattle up and down the slight rev.....so I got tick 336 miles progressed to rattle and tick by 1200


Thanks
Shawn

My only wonder, is whether or not the tick/knock is a mechanical issue or a very slight timing issue. Even if it is a super slight timing issue, Ceratec in an engine may be giving it enough cushion to silence it. My concern is that even though so many of us have tried Ceratec to quiet the engine down, a timing issue could still be there causing potential damage over time.

 

[NastyPumpkin]

But as Ive read any additive voids warranty might as well toss the blower and tune on as ceratec

That is complete BULLSH*T!!! It does not void the warranty, no where does it say "any additive voids warranty"!

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