The true reason unveild behind Gen3 coyote tick. According to MPR racing engines

Discussion in 'Issues, Repairs, Warranty, TSB, Recalls' started by Einar, Jan 4, 2019.

  1. Einar

    Einar Active Member

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    #1 Einar, Jan 4, 2019
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 8, 2019
    Check out this great video that Ken at Palm Beach Dyno made about is visit to MPR racing engines. And what Tim Eichhorn the owner and main tech at MPR had to say about the Coyote block and specially the Gen 3 motor and what he believes is causing the engines issues in the 18-19 mustangs.

    Their discussion of the ticking issue starts at 11:22 of the video.


     
  2. Schwerin

    Schwerin Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't say "true reason" he's just posing an educated guess like most, his guess is just MORE educated than most.
     
  3. Threebanger

    Threebanger I am legend.

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    Interesting..so possible truck blocks getting mixed up in the build process? I had a 1st gen (2011) coyote that had the tick but my 15 is solid.
     
  4. Anthony 05 GT

    Anthony 05 GT Well-Known Member

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    I'll buy what he's saying for a good reason. I think he explained it without stating the obvious. Ford sets them up loose for a reason which is some people fire the engine up and let it rip without warming it up. If Ford set them up tight there's a good chance they would have many more warranty claims than they do now because there would be a lot of seized pistons due to over revs before the block warms and expands.
     
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  5. Scott z

    Scott z Well-Known Member

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    Hey man. Yea I watched that as well. Very cool video. I have always let my 18 warm up before driving. Even when warm out.. ESPECIALLY when its gotton cold.out. I have whipple stage 2.. I dont have any tick so far.. 4700 miles..
     
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  6. Anthony 05 GT

    Anthony 05 GT Well-Known Member

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    #6 Anthony 05 GT, Jan 4, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2019
    The guy clearly stated that he thinks they were set up loose because tighter would cause more than likely piston seizure during an over rev before the block heats and expands because it's aluminum. From what I gather, they are set up loose (piston to cylinder wall clearance) and when the block heats/expands the clearance gets even looser (by up .005'') causing the noise and occasionally cylinder wall scoring.

    To add to that, he stated the bore centers are very often off by up to .012'' I believe....some worse than others which lends to Ford's variances in exact tolerances in areas other than just bore spacing. That explains to me why some tick and some don't. Some engines are more within the tolerances and some are not due to inexact manufacturing procedures. I see this regularly in all types of manufacturing in my industry.

    I'm curious to know about the switching of block and piston grades. It seems like he is stating it was done, but was it intentional or what?
     
  7. TomcatDriver

    TomcatDriver Well-Known Member

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    I think his discussion of bore centers off by up to 12/1000 was an earlier discussion on factory blocks in general.
     
  8. pro 5.0

    pro 5.0 Well-Known Member

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    From my understanding Ford is having a quality control problem and putting smaller dia pistons in bigger bore blocks, hence causing the rattle at 2000 rpm. Normal PTW clearance for the gen 3 was .0012 then with the block expansion at temp it would loosen up another .005. So if it starts off at .005 - .006 cold add another .005 when the block warms up now you have .010 - .011 which is excessive causing cylinder wall scoring due to piston slap. This can also collapse the piston skirts and cause cracking.
     
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  9. LETHAL

    LETHAL From the D but in the NC

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    Yeah so the next clown that says we are A-Holes for believing there is an issue with the short blocks, and says it's the DI pump or it's NORMAL...


    Shut up!

    Ford, are you watching?
     
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  10. Anthony 05 GT

    Anthony 05 GT Well-Known Member

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    I personally do not claim any reason for the problem. Above my pay grade, but what's been discussed so far right here I would not argue with. I've been a tech for 34 years and I've dealt with similar situations for years on and off. Definitely a constant problem these days dodging cheap foreign parts. Even OEM parts often consistently are predictable problem parts year after year, same junk and no change because safety isn't the issue.
     
  11. Fatguy

    Fatguy Banned

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    Well that settles any questions for me about calling off the upgrade when the 2018 GTs came out! I think his opinion is spot on. He is in the business, has a reputation and can be sued, and he says it publicly on video that is now put out there. He would only say this if he was sure of what he said! I just knew mass production of the plasma coating was going to be nothing but a road to a cluster fuck set of compromises that in the end would lead to a shorter engine life. They should have stayed with a traditional sleeved engine block!

    But whatever as I didn’t buy so this isn’t my fight. Good luck to you other guys who have to deal with this issue. Nothing on you as it’s all on Ford trying to save a buck along with sloppy machining processes and the like. I am also giving the actual women at the Essex engine plant a pass too as these issues are related to the designers and bean counters and not the the grunts on the line.

    Thanks to the OP for pointing us to the video as it was very informative!
     
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  12. Fatguy

    Fatguy Banned

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    I will say one solution is to tighten everything up but enforce engine performance limits on the car till it’s fully warmed up. But that is like waving a red flag to a design problem inherent to the engine! But that could work. What a fuck up! And yes saying “fuck” is appropriate when the conditions warrant it!
     
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  13. Scott z

    Scott z Well-Known Member

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    You said that very well FATGUY... I own an 18 gt.. Now that its mine I have to live with it.. Luckly, like I said before, I dont have the "tick".. I have stage 2 whipple. I run 5w 50 oil as recommended by whipple directly..In the video he explains in detail on how the flaws are POSSIBLY causing the tick. But who really knows for sure.. I dont think anyone does?!?!?.
     
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  14. pro 5.0

    pro 5.0 Well-Known Member

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    The 2 main reasons for the PTWA spray in liner was to save 6 lbs of weight (BIG DEAL) and to increase the bore to 93 mm to make it a true 5.0. I'm sure cost savings played a part as well, I said it before this video even came out that Ford needs to go back to the steel liners in the gen 3 blocks.
     
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  15. Excel

    Excel Well-Known Member

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    piston slap will be fixed but it takes the OEMs a year or so..as a new GT buyer I would avoid the 2018s like the plague ,the 2019s who knows .
    GM had a similar issue in the early 2000s LS's and they claimed the slap as "normal" and some lived but plenty were junked..I already know of a few friends that had they're 2018s engines replaced by ford,its epidemic .
    The good news is there will be a bunch of 5.0s for rebuilding at the junk yards soon
     
  16. pro 5.0

    pro 5.0 Well-Known Member

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    The sad part is all replacement engines were slated for 2019 production, and those replacement engines are having the same issues. Supposedly Ford admitted they had a bad run of engines which may be true, but it would appear that they made so many they have no clue which ones were affected.
     
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  17. Anthony 05 GT

    Anthony 05 GT Well-Known Member

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    If this is indeed the cause I would imagine Ford decision makers may have at least for a while decided to absorb the more than a few actual bad engines. The sad thing is they would also have to implement the ''That's a normal noise'' answer to all the complaints that the service desk. I consider this a problem based on mass production cost cutting measures.

    The outfit that previously handled the spray in liners for the GT500 and GT350 probably couldn't take on the large volume of work for a mass production engine so it was done on the cheap. Just speculation on my part.
     
  18. pro 5.0

    pro 5.0 Well-Known Member

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    Ford claimed that they do the PTWA in house to provide better quality control. More lies.
     
  19. pro 5.0

    pro 5.0 Well-Known Member

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    I can't wait to see what issues the new GT500 will have.
     
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  20. Anthony 05 GT

    Anthony 05 GT Well-Known Member

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    My guess is the GT500 engines will be hand built with quality control measures well above the mass produced engines.
     
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