The Great BIG CAI Thread

[J-chitown]

Hate this to be my first post but here goes.
After several hours of research, vids, other forums, asking other mustang fanatics about CAI's, mechanics etc....

What I have concluded is that CAI are almost completely a waste of money if power gains are your goal. Not only that but the filters maybe inferior over time, meaning more dust and debris will enter the intake vs the stock filters. Sure you save money by washing the reusable filter.

So you may ask, well why do all these companies have Dyno numbers to back up their claims? All I can logically presume is they tune the car to get gains. Which is fine but all these performance manufacturers are claiming "No Tune required"

What I have also gathered is the ECU will make the adjustments to keep the car "stock" regardless.
So maybe you get better airflow on these aftermarket intakes, computer reads more airflow and adjusts the mixture back to stock...

Mighty Car mods: Took headlight out and ran filter to the outside of the car.


Engineering Explained:
Small gains and losses, no where near the claims and also
losses if you use your car as an everyday driver.


Supposedly there maybe a sound gain or throttle response gain.
Additionally the after market filters look cooler. So your paying for
better aesthetics.

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[tolzer]

Don't think your the first to find a youtube video that disclaims a product as you can find ones that claim the opposite. I have from experience had positive gains from CAI and just drop-ins. The K&N type of filter has been around a long time and has been proven to increase airflow. Every car reacts different to that, just because this one video with a non scientific test just a tach from an over the hill Acura is by no means proof of anything other that this persons personal experience with an unknown CAI ...duct tape and Dryer vent hose? Just a dude looking for youtube hits and you get that by taking popular topic and creating a counter theory based on made up data.

Stock airboxes are designed to be quite , to help avoid water ingestion and of course provide filtered air. Look at any performance car like the new 350 for example and see what the OEM chose to use. And I think they are a little better educated , experienced and trained than the heroes at Mighty Car.

A CAI is one upgrade I have never regretted and as a note you get what you pay for.

 

[J-chitown]

Don't think your the first to find a youtube video that disclaims a product as you can find ones that claim the opposite. I have from experience had positive gains from CAI and just drop-ins. The K&N type of filter has been around a long time and has been proven to increase airflow. Every car reacts different to that, just because this one video with a non scientific test just a tach from an over the hill Acura is by no means proof of anything other that this persons personal experience with an unknown CAI ...duct tape and Dryer vent hose? Just a dude looking for youtube hits and you get that by taking popular topic and creating a counter theory based on made up data.

Stock airboxes are designed to be quite , to help avoid water ingestion and of course provide filtered air. Look at any performance car like the new 350 for example and see what the OEM chose to use. And I think they are a little better educated , experienced and trained than the heroes at Mighty Car.

A CAI is one upgrade I have never regretted and as a note you get what you pay for.

I get what your saying and they are valid Un-scientific points as well.
Although they do not discount that there is a high potential that just strapping a CAI on your car literally does nothing for power over the stock one. The test they did looks pretty valid to me. The "engineering Explained" guy is Uhmmm a legit Engineer. Belieeeeeve me, I want to buy a part for my new mustang for $300.00 and install it in 20 minutes and feel like I made a difference. Thats what the performance manufacturers are dependent on..REally a filter and a plastic pipe $300-400! :headbonk:
The profit margin must be 800%!

Im not saying that at some point an after market CAI will be a MOD that will make a difference, definitely not the first MOD. Its to my understanding that the choke point in the intake is the Throttle blade. If you do enough research you will realize its snake oil and better aesthetics. If you research what is the best CAI brand to buy, your gonna find that they all create immense power gains and that information comes from the guys that are selling them. If you research they are worthless, you will find tons of information pointing in that direction.

Sure the 350 has a better intake, also has a better everything to make power. IN that case the factory intake was deemed to be a choke point.
Anway, Im not trying to argue Im trying to learn where to delegate funds
to make real gains..Hmmm reminds me of bodybuilding forums..

 

[tolzer]

Any way the CAI is expensive but not really taken into account its a low rate production item once you get past design, R&D and production cost the $300 isn't crazy. No its not a huge boost in HP but adds a nice tone , gives your car a custom feel and sets you apart from the just stock guys. Its a low impact mod that's 100% reversible. If you have never had one try it , before I first bought one I was doubting the same as probably most here. Did lots of reading and found most online data doesn't add up. So I tried one for me on my last car a Camaro SS it was all about the sound and worth every penny.

 

[J-chitown]

Any way the CAI is expensive but not really taken into account its a low rate production item once you get past design, R&D and production cost the $300 isn't crazy. No its not a huge boost in HP but adds a nice tone , gives your car a custom feel and sets you apart from the just stock guys. Its a low impact mod that's 100% reversible. If you have never had one try it , before I first bought one I was doubting the same as probably most here. Did lots of reading and found most online data doesn't add up. So I tried one for me on my last car a Camaro SS it was all about the sound and worth every penny.

NO sir he is a legitimate engineer, in one of his vids he even mentions how he left his cush engineer job to pursue his video career. If you watch enough of his vids you can tell he's highly educated. Additionally
here you go:
The “Engineering Explained” video series -- created by 24-year old Jason Fenske, a North Carolina State University mechanical engineering grad -- is here to help you make your case. There's no fancy animation in these handy explainers, no annoying opening montages -- nothing to detract from the information. It's just Fenske in front of a hand-illustrated whiteboard, breaking down the automotive subjects that interest him and baffle viewers.

The mighty car mod guys are educated too, if that makes any difference to you. I feel like those guys are legit regardless.

Good points, the sound is enjoyable, popping the hood can look cool, easily reversible, maybe throttle response is better,(think that might be bull too). Agreed no real power gains as a first MOD, maybe even decrease in performance:clap2n the lower rpms.
Maybe a little lighter. Possibly over time will force more dust into your engine because its has inferior filtration properties in contrast to stock. That to me is scary if I plan to keep the car beyond 36k miles. Maybe this is why they can reject warranty issues just for a simple CAI.
​

 

[tolzer]

A you-tube engineer only 3 years post grad no work experience in the automotive field talks a good game but just selling hits for his channel looking for advertising. Not calling him out just don't think K&N , Roush or many others would put out crap this isn't the vornado or easy 10 minutes abs. Don't believe all you see on the internet most are just selling gas. Most manufactures like Roush and K&N will give you real data sheets , call them up and ask them what they think about the you-tube guy.

Oh on the bad filters after 20 years of Aircraft and Auto Engineering the most used Filter is a K&N and preferred for high dust areas. Now the dry vs wet filter is another topic.

Either way the best way for more power is buy a bigger engine bang for the buck its tops

 

[J-chitown]

A you-tube engineer only 3 years post grad no work experience in the automotive field talks a good game but just selling hits for his channel looking for advertising. Not calling him out just don't think K&N , Roush or many others would put out crap this isn't the vornado or easy 10 minutes abs. Don't believe all you see on the internet most are just selling gas. Most manufactures like Roush and K&N will give you real data sheets , call them up and ask them what they think about the you-tube guy.

Oh on the bad filters after 20 years of Aircraft and Auto Engineering the most used Filter is a K&N and preferred for high dust areas. Now the dry vs wet filter is another topic.

I really don't have any more ammo to spit at ya bud. IF you believe your getting gains for your $300-400. What can I do, I tried, I was hoping someone would come up with something that I can learn from, not that you didn't--you made great points to consider. What maybe the case is the guys that know from experience that CAI's make little to no difference are probably not even interested in this thread and already had this debate years ago. Personally I can't ignore the information I came across. I would rather invest in MODS that with out a doubt have a performance impact and that you know as soon as you put your foot on the pedal there's a difference.

IN the race for better MPG and power specks, I also have to think that at this day and age Ford would just throw on a better filter to get these huge
claimed gains the after market is getting. Was on some forum where Cobb admitted there was no gains over the stock, just better looks and louder.
Also keep mind that Ford synthesized exhaust tones thru the speaker system.

You can simply do a 0-60 test before and after using your track apps. With the gains these companies are claiming you should see some better times.

 

[tolzer]

I have wondered that too why don't the OEMs put them on to start with ? My question was why doesn't the Roush RS1 not have their CAI on it? Was it because like the spoiler delete on the PP because it really didn't do anything?

Think its a cost factor and liability for most OEMs . Ford , GM , BMW , Audi and many others offer them as accessories and most will back them up with OEM warranty.

One filter and warranty thing that lingers on the internet came from some claiming the K&N oil from the filters was messing up sensors, but ultimately was found folks were over oiling them and not following instructions.

On the syn engine sound , lots of expert videos there and what I found though asking Ford its more an engine auto-tune , many others are doing the same thing. http://www.techtimes.com/articles/1...ise-via-stereo-hello-active-noise-control.htm

Good Luck with your quest!

 

[J-chitown]

I have wondered that too why don't the OEMs put them on to start with ? My question was why doesn't the Roush RS1 not have their CAI on it? Was it because like the spoiler delete on the PP because it really didn't do anything?

I think because it makes little difference and the stock CAI is not impacting the performance one bit. Infact its probably literally made mathmatically perfect for where the engine is tuned out of the box and possibly some room for more boost. You can't ignore those myth busting vids bud, you can decide that maybe, just maybe they are partially skewed but they are not 100% pure shit. Not going to mention which performance manufacturer
gave me this advice but after a long chat, they guy said start with the intercooler first if I want to see some gains. That statement alone leads you think the CAI is not going to yield noticeable gains at this stage.
Kinda surprised they "roush" wouldn't just throw it on just so the kids think its doing something worth investing in. although Roush and Ford are in bed together to some degree because if Roush does your mods--its all still under warranty. Im guessing that a Roush tuned car still has a Rev limiter. I guess the fact that the dealer has
to warranty all that stuff its kinda worth paying an extra %25 across the board.

Think its a cost factor and liability for most OEMs . Ford , GM , BMW , Audi and many others offer them as accessories and most will back them up with OEM warranty.

One filter and warranty thing that lingers on the internet came from some claiming the K&N oil from the filters was messing up sensors, but ultimately was found folks were over oiling them and not following instructions.

Heard that too. It must be easy to over oil them possibly. What Im wondering is if there is a sound difference on after market CAI's what
exactly is the cause of that sound difference? That alone has me wondering how exactly is the air being manipulated to get more sound.

On the syn engine sound , lots of expert videos there and what I found though asking Ford its more an engine auto-tune , many others are doing the same thing. http://www.techtimes.com/articles/1...ise-via-stereo-hello-active-noise-control.htm

will check this out, thanks.

Good Luck with your quest!

My quest is most likely a tune and an exhaust, maybe a down pipe. So far that appears to have the biggest performance bang for the dollar. Unless I come across new info.

 

[Keiferson22]

I picked up a Roush CAI and will say that there are no quantifiable performance gains. I tested the 0-60 times before and after with very similar ambient conditions results were similar if not worse. The only difference I can see is that my idle IAT is sky rocketing. Now I need to figure out how to keep the heat out of my COLD AIR intake. Any suggestions, maybe some thermal wrap on the exterior of the box?

I will say that the sound is cool but wow did I get rolled! Oh well, live and learn...

 

[KoreanMustangMan]

I picked up a Roush CAI and will say that there are no quantifiable performance gains. I tested the 0-60 times before and after with very similar ambient conditions results were similar if not worse. The only difference I can see is that my idle IAT is sky rocketing. Now I need to figure out how to keep the heat out of my COLD AIR intake. Any suggestions, maybe some thermal wrap on the exterior of the box?

I will say that the sound is cool but wow did I get rolled! Oh well, live and learn...

Well compared to the stock intake assembly the Roush or JLT design has a huge hole that sucks in heat from the engine bay as the filter is exposed to the ambient heat of the engine. Its not a sealed design so i think you're out of luck. Im assuming that the hood does not stay flush with the seals around the opening of the intake box that contains the filter.

An intake assembly will not give you any performance gain by itself. Its more of a visual, audible modification.

 

[J-chitown]

Well compared to the stock intake assembly the Roush or JLT design has a huge hole that sucks in heat from the engine bay as the filter is exposed to the ambient heat of the engine. Its not a sealed design so i think you're out of luck. Im assuming that the hood does not stay flush with the seals around the opening of the intake box that contains the filter.

An intake assembly will not give you any performance gain by itself. Its more of a visual, audible modification.

Another customer with no gains from a CAI and that one is the most expensive! I would send that fcking thing back immediately. They claim like 27+HP and that would be plenty enough to see a better 0-60 time. :tsk:
What has me concerned about this engine is Ford was blowing up engines on the Focus RS trying to squeeze more power out of them.

Sure they did achieve their goals in the end but that's a team of the best engineers in the industry with the best cpu testing gear hands down. That has me thinking, "a little performance company is going to safely get 370hp+ out of the same engine when Ford struggled to do 350" Just doesn't add up. The key word is "safely"

 

[EcoSwag1990]

That has me thinking, "a little performance company is going to safely get 370hp+ out of the same engine when Ford struggled to do 350" Just doesn't add up. The key word is "safely"

There is a lot more to it than that. Ford has to adhere to strict emissions regs and the tuning has to be such that the car will run safely on whatever octane fuel a customer puts in it. Tuners don't have to worry about either of those things.

 

[Punchy04]

After seeing my IAT Temps up I switched back to my Airaid sealed CAI. Not as loud as the Roush but least My Temps are back down. Plus the quality of the Airaid air box is much better.

 

[Keiferson22]

Well compared to the stock intake assembly the Roush or JLT design has a huge hole that sucks in heat from the engine bay as the filter is exposed to the ambient heat of the engine. Its not a sealed design so i think you're out of luck. Im assuming that the hood does not stay flush with the seals around the opening of the intake box that contains the filter.

An intake assembly will not give you any performance gain by itself. Its more of a visual, audible modification.

So after gaining nothing and seeing idle temps jump to 50 degrees above ambient I've contacted Yates performance and asked for a refund. I will keep looking for other options but I'm convinced that a sealed box is the way to go if you want to keep high temperature engine bay air out of your intake. The irony here is that there is a giant rubber gasket at the top of the box that is supposed to seal against the bottom face of the hood.

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