The Down and Dirty ADM Thread

[crs2879]

And yes, people are free to do with their money what they wish.....but same for the dealers, they are free to charge what they wish. Can't have one without the other.

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[Minn19]

Honestly, I think most retailers refrain from marking-up merchandise like car dealers do for marketing reasons. Imagine Wal-Mart, Target, TRU, etc marking-up the "hot" Christmas Toy 50% or more just because they can....they would get blistered by the media. For some reason, car dealers basically get a pass on this stuff. However, at the end of the day, don't blame the dealer, blame the buyers who were willing to pay to play.....ADM won't fly if no one willing to pay it. Sometimes, it is also a tactic to keep the "tire kickers" away. I recall a Dodge dealer who had a $10K ADM on an SRT4 sitting on his showroom. When I asked if they expected anyone to actually pay it, salesman said it was to keep the teenagers from asking for joy rides....not sure how that would work but that was his answer.

Yes they do, you just don't see it. At least car manufacturers don't mark up there products 200-300% like the retailers you've mentioned. They don't get a huge chunk all at once like a car purchase, but they get a very nice profit over time that is for sure.

 

[crs2879]

I don't think FoMoCo sees a dime of ADM. Fiat/Chrysler tried to keep the ADM off Hellcats by incentivizing or dis-incentiving the dealers from doing it....don't think they were very successful. I have heard no such initiatives from Ford. However, at the end of the day, the dealer sets the price. If you check sites like Edmonds.com that show invoice pricing, the dealer is getting a fat +/- $5K profit at MSRP for a GT350.....ADM is just added gravy. When you see dealers advertising cars below invoice, their profit is in the hold-back or regional incentives to move units....typically a few hundred dollars, not thousands. Typical dealer makes more profit in the F&I office and Service Bays than on the showroom. Think about it, who pays MSRP for new cars unless it is something like a GT350?......Some dealers are gearheads and care about the special nature of the car but most just see the supply v demand curve. If they had 10 GT350's sitting on their lot for 90 days, there'd be screaming deals on them too.

 

[crs2879]

Ford's cash cow is the F-150. I've read some reports that say they make upward of $13K profit on average for each unit. So, even though I have no affinity for car dealers, I don't fault them for taking a windfall profit when they can. Without the F-150, cars like the GT350 likely wouldn't even exist.

 

[firestarter2]

I still think ADMs hurt the manufacturer. Every guy who asks me about my car said they loved it but didnt want to lay 70k so they werent interested. Now I know some of that is talk but I find it hard to believe some buyers where not scared away.

If there where no ADMs I think ford could of sold X amount more. Not to mention Ford priced the car at what they thought was reasonable when people over pay and have warranty issues and other Quality issue normal to Ford they are even more unhappy then youd expect and they dont Blame the dealer they blame Ford.

Im sure with the Franchise agreements its limited what Ford can do.

 

[crs2879]

I don't hold Ford accountable for it. Dodge tried to limit ADM with Hellcats but not sure how you would know how successful it was. Their thinking was if a dealer sells Hellcats quickly, he/she is not marking them up and would get more allocations. Seems it would work if there was plenty of allocations to be had. Ford should have left the GT350R to the wolves and upped production of the regular GT350. If every dealer had 5 or more base GT350's, ADM would likely be non-existent. Leave the high-option cars to the special orders and let the folks who don't have deep pockets have a shot at MSRP or even a bit below. If production hits close to 5K units for '16/'17, values will likely not hold anyway.....

 

[MCarsFan]

It's all about how Ford manages its relationships with its dealers. The type of people who run these dealers and the caliber of the people they employ are all directly related with the company's ability to build the right relationships with the right people.

Unfortunately 99% of Ford's products are trucks, explorers, fusions, and you name it. Average price of those cars and the market they sell at cannot finance the type of caliber people you expect that can handle a car like the GT350. It's just reality.

This car has pulled so many people from other brands who were shopping GT4s, GT3s, etc that the expectation from those people are that they want to be treated the way those other brands treat them. When they talk to a Ford salesman or set foot in a Ford dealer, they experience massive culture shock.

I cannot tell you the number of times I had to send follow e-mails to sales people or call them many times to "present" my offer to the SM, who then further "presents" my offer to the "owner".

This whole "presenting" and the way it works is just so stupid, what is this are we buying a house and are they realtors? And then what is with the "owner" of the dealer determining the price of the sale? Am I buying a bugatti veyron what is this so important that the owner has to make the final decision?

I have bought on sold so many sports cars, dealt with BMW and Porsche. Never have I been treated by amateurs like this. You call up a salesman, he calls you back when he says he would. He has the numbers, he has room to negotiate. No BS spiel. What's the point of the salesman if they are going to hire someone with a high school degree and they won't let him talk to you and he has no authority? The whole thing is just not professionally managed and this is the same story across the country in almost every Ford dealer I dealt with and I have dealt with a lot of them.

In the end Ford has a world class team of engineers who built this amazing car, but they have a terrible dealership network that the execution is just terribly done.

 

[jwhite]

ADM's have been out there on Mustangs sense 1964 1/2,,,,,,, Not sure why everybody gets so upset over them? I paid one, did I like it? Not really but I didn't want to spend hours/days calling around, travel, shipping, ext. I wanted the car, ordered to my liking ,paid it and haven't thought about it sense. Some bring up the Hell Cat and how Dodge tries to limit ADM's , personality I wouldn't pay invoice for one, just not interested in a HellCat. Deals are out there if you don't want to pay it, but don't blame us that can pay it and do.

 

[jwhite]

I wanted to clarify my above post. I'm not trying to be an ass about it and I'm not a fan of the ADM but,,,, I totally respect anyone that says " I'm not paying an ADM on a car " that is totally up to you and your budget. I just hate to see where post state that people " me " are idiots that do and we're responsible for the continued ADMs. That's like saying if nobody would but a Bugatti or a McLaren then their price would come down into my budget range.

 

[crs2879]

I said people are free to do with their money what they wish. However, ADM would not exist if people weren't willing to pay it so putting it 100% on the dealership is not reality. Believe me, I have no love for car dealers. Worst business dealings I have had involved trying to buy a car......

 

[5.0 435]

Trying to make a internet deal with a ford dealership is next to impossible. BMW and GM make it very easy and very few games. My used 350 track car was purchased @ a dodge dealership and it went well. Tidwell ford in Marietta Ga is one of the few dealership I would use in the future. But the rest are not able to treat people like knowledgeable customers. They must think we are a bunch of fools and will pay their stupid ADMs. I'd love to be a fly on the wall in a Monday morning sales meeting @ a ford dealership.

 

[MCarsFan]

Trying to make a internet deal with a ford dealership is next to impossible. BMW and GM make it very easy and very few games. My used 350 track car was purchased @ a dodge dealership and it went well. Tidwell ford in Marietta Ga is one of the few dealership I would use in the future. But the rest are not able to treat people like knowledgeable customers. They must think we are a bunch of fools and will pay their stupid ADMs. I'd love to be a fly on the wall in a Monday morning sales meeting @ a ford dealership.

I have to be honest, I agree with you but to give credit where its due, they are not all the same. I am not exaggarating, probably 5% do treat you properly.

Unfortunately people are fools and they do pay ADM. Thats just how it is. In this board alone we have 10-15 R owners who got their cars early last year. At a minimum they paid $20-25k over, some at least $40k. You go and ask 100 people and 99 of them will call you crazy for paying ADM that is as much as a brand new car! I mean who does that? Unfortunately people do that.

It all has to do with western mentality. "I want what I want when I want". Or "I cant deal with the hassle of calling people or negotiating" or "life is too short".

I will never understand the ADM business and this is probably why even at 10k ADM, I cannot bring myself to buy an R.

And I have no problem paying more for quality product but that money is not going to the company who built and engineered the car! I mean how stupid and unfair is that some dealer sitting on his ass pocketing huge profit and they havent even lifted their finger throughout the entire production process.

 

[96cobra]

Dealers are used to getting jerked around on Standard Mustang GT's and F150s (non raptor) to the point of working off of invoice.. so they flip that when they can, including on the GT350 and Raptors. So in reality, customers are jerking them 95% of the time and they only have power on a limited amount of vehicles to ask over (you can include the Focus RS on this also).

I hate ADM's on GT350's, but when buying/selling it's all about supply/demand and how much a buyer/seller is willing to move to make it happen.

 

[Mike02z]

I doubt anyone likes ADM but I found a car I wanted in stock and wanted to stop spending time looking. My time is valuable to me. I paid the ADM and have been enjoying my car for almost 2 months. Many others are still waiting to find those MSRP deals that are out there. As the weather turns colder I'm happy I get to enjoy my car now even though I paid ADM.

 

[krt22]

Trying to make a internet deal with a ford dealership is next to impossible. BMW and GM make it very easy and very few games. My used 350 track car was purchased @ a dodge dealership and it went well. Tidwell ford in Marietta Ga is one of the few dealership I would use in the future. But the rest are not able to treat people like knowledgeable customers. They must think we are a bunch of fools and will pay their stupid ADMs. I'd love to be a fly on the wall in a Monday morning sales meeting @ a ford dealership.

My deal was painless. I called, confirmed the price, put my deposit down. The owner called me the next morning and walked through the order over the phone as he punched it in.

They kept me updated over the 8 months it took to build, car was finally built, it arrived, they sent pictures via email, sent over the paper work, I sent them a check and the car was mine. The salesman even came back to the dealership after his shift was over to unlock it and hand over the keys to the transporter picking it up.

Gustafson Ford-Kewanee, Illinois

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