student debt forgiveness is back

[FreePenguin]

Lol thats funny

Mine was well worth over 50k. It was like 40k a year because I was out of state student. With the GI Bill I'm getting charged in-state tuition which is like 12k and, on top of that I get like ~3k for BAH.

You earned it though, even if it was 500k it’s still an earned benefit you deserve.
Not these people who simply feel they deserve it just because

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[jtmat]

its all the new generation wants. those enabling them by saying "sure we will pay for your mistakes" are pathetic. im sorry, but hell my friends parents just finished paying off 100k for their kids to go to college. do they get a refund? oh no. sorry. screw you?

Which "new generation"? Have you bothered to research who holds the student debt? Obvious from your reply you have not. This is not about the 18-year-olds in school.

No one deserves free college

Some people do deserve "free" college and they get it. Not the topic though.

I'm not sure there is a loan forgiveness where the borrow does not give up something. No path is "free".

 

[Atlas1]

Your argument is non-existent.

This has nothing to do with "voting tendencies". Look up who holds the debt. For example, people who didn't graduate, parents of students, etc. You are conveniently ignoring a host of people. Trying to tie politics with this issue will not go well. Sure that won't stop though.

And of course where they live is irrelevant. I made that comment because your original post made little sense, outside of being a political hit job.

Little funny to see your reply though. Of course it is "irrelevant" that student loan forgiveness will help more republicans. Ha ha ha...

roughly 60% of the student loan debt is held by people towards the top of the economic ladder. these are people that have the ability to pay back their loans, they just dont want to. much easier to get people to think that we are bailing out the underprivileged when in reality very little of student loan forgiveness is going to them.

don't be so naïve. of course this whole thing is political. the liberal politicians pushing for this are doing so to help their voters. i don't know what the "ha ha ha" you posted is in reference to. student loan forgiveness will help far more democrat voters than it will republican. after all, look who is pushing for it......

Says who? So we do nothing? I don't get where you are going...

of course we should do something. as i already explained, there is no appetite for actually solving the problem though. too many hands out looking for free stuff and too many whores in politics to oblige. passing off debt from the people that took it out in the first place onto the backs of everyone else is not "doing something".

There is no "simple fix". $200k? The average debt is 30k. What does "gender" or being a "lesbian" have to do with anything? That does not even make sense.

sure there is. have debt? too bad, work to pay it off. i don't remember reading about individuals having a gun to their head forcing them to take on debt. why do the people who did not rack up the debt or those that paid their own debt off have to cover for everyone else?

the $30k average you are referring to is not accurate. its much closer to $40k. that number also only reflects debt related to a bachelors degree. it ignores postgraduate debt.

do i actually have to explain what was meant by the comments about gender and lesbian dance theory? it is a reference to the absolutely useless degrees that are being acquired by students in exchange for taking on massive amounts of debt that they now want someone else to pick up the tab for. my apologies, i did not think you would be so triggered by a comment related to gender studies.

Sounds like you support educating potential students on their options and providing them with financial literacy classes. Maybe something else?

we are in total agreement on that one! i'm confused though.....don't the parents of students educate them on these issues before they sign on the dotted line?

Why are you posting?

As I stated earlier in this thread, learn the political process.

You can start by taking off your political glasses. This is not a political issue.

because i want to.

as i said earlier, this is of course a political issue. to think otherwise is being naïve.

So you believe we need to figure out this issue without universities taking a pay cut.

where did i say that? i actually hinted at the complete opposite.
the gov is backing these student loans. the universities are increasing the prices of tuition based on the gov securing these loans. with that comes high paying salaries for university employees. where is the incentive to fix this whole mess? you don't see the people pushing to eliminate student debt also talking about fixing what caused it in the first place do you? are the universities trying to help by reevaluating the cost of tuition? any politicians pushing this talking about the dangers of taking on debt at a young age without a clear path towards paying it off? of course not. just have the rest of us cover the bill while the next generation comes up and repeats the same cycle all over again.

 

[jtmat]

why do the people who did not rack up the debt or those that paid their own debt off have to cover for everyone else?

Some of my understanding (not that I agree, just posting some of what I learned):

• People with student debt but no degree or paid more than what their degree is worth are struggling to pay off the loan.
• The loans are second behind mortgage debt. It slows down the economy because certain people can't pay it off.
• They can't catch up because of the interest, with some owning upwards of 95% of their original loan after 10 years of "base" payments.
• Bottom line from what I understand is we pay one way or another. Like the housing crisis... we take care of it now, or it impacts us later (if one believes there will be an impact).

we are in total agreement on that one! i'm confused though.....don't the parents of students educate them on these issues before they sign on the dotted line?

Some are first generation students. Their parents don't know the process. Heck, some come from nothing.

I've personally seen this played out so many times over the course of my life. I've never seen anyone go into thinking they were getting over. Some had no idea, but knew they had to do something. They did not have a good guidance counselor or limited options where they lived. Some went on scholarships but did not do well on the scholarship and booted off or if an athlete, got injured. Some simply could not deal with the stress. Some had no "extra" money and could not make it (could not get a job, etc.).

Some should have never went. I remember almost begging this one young man to go into the military. HIs family was against it. I mentored him for a while and knew he would do well in the military. I felt he was not mature enough for college. I hated being right on that one.

I've seen more, but those are some cases. Seen many, many who held jobs or went through without an issue as well. Majority have went on to do well.

this is of course a political issue. to think otherwise is being naïve.

The reason I don't believe it is political is that both Republicans and Democrats have stated student debt/education is an issue. They don't agree on the path. Much like the healthcare argument.

The Trump administration made some good strides in education. Heck he even supported student loan forgiveness. So no, I don't believe this is a political issue.

I do see it as a "potential" America issue. I'm personally still not convinced it is an issue we should throw a lot of money towards. What else can we do? I've not made up my mind here...

where did i say that? i actually hinted at the complete opposite.
the gov is backing these student loans. the universities are increasing the prices of tuition based on the gov securing these loans. with that comes high paying salaries for university employees. where is the incentive to fix this whole mess? you don't see the people pushing to eliminate student debt also talking about fixing what caused it in the first place do you? are the universities trying to help by reevaluating the cost of tuition? any politicians pushing this talking about the dangers of taking on debt at a young age without a clear path towards paying it off? of course not. just have the rest of us cover the bill while the next generation comes up and repeats the same cycle all over again.

100% with you on this... answer to your questions is "no". This is where I struggle. I'm not seeing a complete plan to take care of this issue.

 

[sk47]

ll these people pissing and moaning not my tax dollars... blah blah... so how may times did tax funded checks come your way and you tore them up and didnt cash them? yeah never. if checks were sent to you, you would put them back in the mail with a letter saying no thanks keep it I cant use tax money. yeah that wouldn't happen either. its just a bunch of people bitching cause they aren't getting anything out of it. if they were you wouldn't here a single argument.

Hello; You and some others keep missing or ignoring an important point. There are not a bunch of us bitching just because we do not get anything from the government. We not only will be getting nothing out of the debt forgiveness, we will be getting an individualized portion of the bill when we pay taxes. That is a main point. Lots of analogies and example have been posted and been casually ignored.

One of the other arguments has been is some ways the others guys' education we will pay for is a benefit to us. Well my take is that benefit is vanishingly small in the general sense. Say one of those college graduates whose debt we pay off becomes a doctor or a CPA. Do you imagine I will get a break on their bills and fees because I was one of the citizens who got part of the bill for their essentially "free to them" education. I don't think so.

 

[TexasMetallic5.0]

In a nutshell.

 

[sk47]

so what I have learned.

If you need help you are a freeloading handout wanting lazy piece of crap

If you have money you earned every penny of it honestly(yeah right) and should be put on a pedestal for being great and paying for your education

And the only job in the world worthy of a tax dollar funded education is the military. Every other job regardless of how hard or back breaking or dangerous, is not worthy and those people are also just sponges wanting a hand out.

If you paid for an education then it was for a meaningful degree because only people who can pay for degrees get one that is 100% useful and contributes to society

If you need help paying for a degree then it is always some useless crap arts degree because you are an idiot and thats why you cant pay for it now.

I guess I need to go out into the world and stereotype everyone now with these guidelines.

Hello; Every thing in this post is a false twist on the things I, in particular, and some others have written. Pretty sure you understand what you are doing. At least I do hope you have an understanding of the way you misrepresent the counter arguments I and others have been making.

Your approach is to picture your preference as being morally superior and any who take a different view as being cruel and uncaring. I am aware of the tactic. It has been used on me in the past. Not wishing to pay off someone else's debt is no where near the same as not throwing a rope to a drowning person. There are no longer debtors prisons as in the past.

 

[sk47]

so everything in this entire topic is opinion.

Hello; Of course some of the discussion is opinion, but not "everything". There are some facts included as well. Again you twist or distort. This comment being a fine example.

ou seem to paint your opinions in a favorable light and mine in a Im twisting the truth and manipulating things?

Hello; Of course I defend my point of view. I try to do so in a civil manner with enough extended comments to explain a point of view. I like to think my approach is more honest than what you have been doing the last few posts. I can go back and quote some example where you have twisted my meanings in particular. I do not think I stated you twisted the truth, but that you twisted my meanings. In todays world it appears that some figure to have a "personal truth" so that particular term now is not so clear in it's traditional intended use. I am more old school in that while I do have personal opinions, I do not like to see "truth" diluted or distorted.

I hope some of my good fortune helps out someone else.

Hello; Here is where we differ. You have had good fortune and hope that good fortune can help others. Well, go ahead and find some one in student loan debt trouble and help them out. I do the same sort of thing myself from time to time. I help others using the elements at my disposal. I did so just this past week. It was voluntary on my part.
A difference is you appear to want others to be forced to have to go along with a notion you happen to favor. You keep calling those of us names such as being selfish if we do not choose to go along with you. Not voluntary but a type of force.

 

[Burkey]

so what I have learned.

If you need help you are a freeloading handout wanting lazy piece of crap

If you have money you earned every penny of it honestly(yeah right) and should be put on a pedestal for being great and paying for your education

And the only job in the world worthy of a tax dollar funded education is the military. Every other job regardless of how hard or back breaking or dangerous, is not worthy and those people are also just sponges wanting a hand out.

If you paid for an education then it was for a meaningful degree because only people who can pay for degrees get one that is 100% useful and contributes to society

If you need help paying for a degree then it is always some useless crap arts degree because you are an idiot and thats why you cant pay for it now.

I guess I need to go out into the world and stereotype everyone now with these guidelines.

Excellent summary.

 

[FreePenguin]

Thing is people live just fine with student debt. They don’t jail you for it etc. that’s why people simply never pay it.

let them live with it. Or pay it back. They signed up for it

 

[wazslow]

And we are back to what do I get out of it. its still selfishness. Its basically the same as standing there with a rope. Being able to help a person drowning and just doing nothing cause well you wont get anything out of it.

and Ill say again you have bigger things to be upset about "your" tax dollars. https://blog.cheapism.com/biggest-wastes-of-tax-dollars/#slide=7 Paying off student debt would be a tiny drop in the bucket compared to these wastes of your money.... but is anyone bitching about those? nope . why? Because bob next door didn't get anything you didnt out of it.

but god forbit a human being gets a step up in life from "your" tax dollars.

Is it not selfish to think others should pay for your choice to go to college?

 

[sk47]

Hello; Briebee72 stated in a post he/she is playing devils advocate. It appears this may be some sort of game to him/her. I suppose it could be I am wrong about that speculation. Either way there is a pattern.

A more recent example can be the altered definition, to me, of being selfish. I and others are accused of being "selfish" because we are against student loan debt forgiveness. I have reasons for being against student debt forgiveness and have stated them, as have others. My reasons are not because I "do not get anything free from the government". I explained this before yet Briebee 72 continues to try to impose his/her own personal definitions onto my points of view.

I have taken out loans for varying reasons during my life. Never once did I consider any other people around me selfish because they did not help me pay off my own personal debt.

I will try another analogy. Say I am eating out and there are others in the same place eating out who are strangers to me. Am I to be considered selfish if I do not chip in to pay for those strangers meals? I do not think so.
Sure I could pay for a strangers meal. I hear of such things on the news. People picking up the tab for others, those people could be called generous for sure. But are they to be called selfish all the other times they only pay for their own meals?

 

[sk47]

"I really don't give two cares either way. I just like playing devils advocate because I seriously think some of you need to lighten up, pull the stick from your butt and be kinder to others. "
I copied this comment form post #327 written by Briebee72


"Seriously? I never said anything like that. you keep twisting things around not addressing anything I say on the point, twist what ever I say and then say its me twisting it. flat out saying things I never said and then responding to them as if I did and trying to make a case for something I never said. you have serious issues man."
I copied this comment form post #335 written by Briebee72 just in the last few hours.

NOTE- for some reason the site will not allow me to grab quotes in the usual way so I had to use copy and paste.

 

[sk47]

Seriously? I never said anything like that. you keep twisting things around not addressing anything I say on the point, twist what ever I say and then say its me twisting it. flat out saying things I never said and then responding to them as if I did and trying to make a case for something I never said. you have serious issues man.

I never even implied anyone should pay for someone elses dinner or be considered selfish. I said in response to two specific thing you said that you sounded selfish because the way you worded it was that you weren't getting anything from it so why would should you pay. YOU made it sound as if you were simply not interested in helping anyone if you got nothing out of it... and that is the definition of selfish. I was not referring to anyone else being selfish for any other reason period.

Stop twisting what I said. anyway I wont respond to you any more. its been 2 days since you decided to respond and since, you have decided to respond by talking in circles to every single post I have made. you make no sense. plus you keep trying to make it like im talking to everyone when I respond to a specific thing you said. I called any one else selfish and never said any one was. again my whole reason for saying you specifically were selfish is because you in two sperate times said you didn't feel you wanted to help anyone with student loans because you were getting nothing from it. and yes in that specific statement you sounded selfish. Not because you didnt want to help but in the way you stated your reasons for not wanting too. quit twisting what i say to your specific statements and twisting them to make it sound as if Im saying it to everyone.

Hello; If you truly intend to quit this thread such will be good enough and we can leave it be. However if you come back on this thread I challenge you to find statements written by me to back up the claims you have made about me. I have put the two comments from you in bold print. I contend I have never made such statements. If the site will not allow the usual method of quoting please include the post number in your response.

 

[sk47]

Ok what ever. The quotes you quoted I don't even know why. Or what the hell you are talking about. Not quiting thread... Quiting responding to you.

Hello; To others who may be following this thread since Briebee72 has decided not to back up the statements he made about me. I get that most of you are not interested in disputes between the two of us. I am against forgiveness of federal student loans for reasons I have tried to be clear about. I resent the way he has implied I have selfish reasons for my opinion. My opinions are not based on personal selfish reasons. That he has failed to back up his claims ought to stand as evidence.

Perhaps we now can continue with more a more productive discussion. I apologize for the side track but will not allow such slurs against me go unchallenged.

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