student debt forgiveness is back

sk47

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But I guess being responsible and paying your bills is the new form of racism.
Hello; Got a ironic chuckle from me. There is a whole lot of redefining going on the last few years. So many of us wake up and find new definitions applied to us. We become a "racists" just because of the skin we are born with, rather than any actions or attitudes.
Equality is being replaced with "equity" in a push to give some benefits and take away from others. I wonder if "equal" treatment under the law will actually be replaced by "equity" under the law.

Sincerely,
an Indigenous American.
Hello; Yes.





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RPDBlueMoon

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I get a cost of living increase almost every year with the Dept. of Defense. It’s not my fault I didn’t get a useless degree in underwater basket weaving. If they can cancel Joe Blows student debt so he can afford the new PS20 to play more Call of Duty from his 1 bedroom appointment, they can do the same with my home loan. Nobody forced them to take student loans, I worked and paid my part and my family helped pay the rest. But I guess being responsible and paying your bills is the new form of racism. The pussification of this Country is astounding. Man up and take care of your business. Nobody owes anyone anything.
Sincerely,
an Indigenous American.
Lol, It seems like you are unable to detach yourself from the situation. I was not making a personal attack against you. I receive a cost of living increase yearly as well. I worked hard and made several scarfices to get where I am at today. I am also an African-American. I am pretty well off for my age and ethnicity/race, but I am not talking about you or myself. I don't see how that is racist.

Not everyone who has college debt has a degree in basket weaving. Like I said before, if the wages rose with inflation as they did in the past college debt would be a non-issue. It started to become an issue in the late 80s and 90s. You can either look at the data and acknowledge the problem or just ignore it and come to a generalization which is what you are doing. Can't really do generalizations in my line of work.
 
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TexasMetallic5.0

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People hate me when I post things like this but it’s the truth. We are what we make of ourselves, we are also brought down by our bad choices.

I 100000% agree with you.
I reached the point years ago when I stopped caring what other people thought or how their feelings might get hurt. I tell guys at work that if they don’t want to get upset or their feelings hurt, leave them in their purse outside the wire, because if they’re an idiot, I’m going to tell it how it is and met their snow. People don’t want the truth, they just want their opinions and beliefs to come out of your mouth to reassure them that their little safe space hasn’t been sodomized with a cactus. It’s not always rainbows and Care Bears out there. Life will kick your teeth down your throat and keep on rolling. People can either get back up or just lay there. That’s their choice. Now I need a drink.
 

TexasMetallic5.0

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Hello; Got a ironic chuckle from me. There is a whole lot of redefining going on the last few years. So many of us wake up and find new definitions applied to us. We become a "racists" just because of the skin we are born with, rather than any actions or attitudes.
Equality is being replaced with "equity" in a push to give some benefits and take away from others. I wonder if "equal" treatment under the law will actually be replaced by "equity" under the law.


Hello; Yes.
I just took a class on Cultural Diversity yesterday, talking about equality and whatnot. If someone wants equality, they can put in the equity to be treated as such.
 

TexasMetallic5.0

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Lol, It seems like you are unable to detach yourself from the situation. I was not making a personal attack against you. I receive a cost of living increase yearly as well. I worked hard and made several scarfices to get where I am at today. I am also an African-American. I am pretty well off for my age, but I am not talking about you or myself. I don't see how that is racist.

Not everyone who has college debt has a degree in basket weaving. Like I said before, if the wages rose with inflation as they did in the past college debt would be a non-issue. It started to become an issue in the late 80s and 90s. You can either look at the data and acknowledge the problem or just ignore it and come to a generalization which is what you are doing. Can't really do generalizations in my line of work.
Nothing personal was deduced from your statement. I take nothing personal, so no worries.
 

FreePenguin

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All my peers are 100% for everything coming, my age group locally is pro Bernie pro Biden pro student debt elimination, stimulus checks monthly unemployment for life, healthcare free, illegals free, if you aren’t in the gay/lgbtz and trans rallies you’re a racist and miserable person

Dayton is extremely liberal and hipsters with its residents
 

TexasMetallic5.0

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My condolences bro. I almost moved to just outside of Seattle and would have been in the same boat. They want all those freebies, sounds like prison would be their ideal location, everything is free there.
 

FreePenguin

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My condolences bro. I almost moved to just outside of Seattle and would have been in the same boat. They want all those freebies, sounds like prison would be their ideal location, everything is free there.
People who had trump stickers on cars was being vandalized and few even set on fire during elections, was worst during hilary v trump though

After that event, didn’t really see pro trump stickers or anything
 

sk47

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All my peers are 100% for everything coming, my age group locally is pro Bernie pro Biden pro student debt elimination, stimulus checks monthly unemployment for life, healthcare free, illegals free, if you aren’t in the gay/lgbtz and trans rallies you’re a racist and miserable person

Dayton is extremely liberal and hipsters with its residents
Hello; one of the things I try to do when making plans is to figure future results from an action made today. I have been thinking about what may change if some of the popular causes were to be come reality.

So lets say the government providing the free stuff being wished for becomes a reality. Guaranteed regular income, free health care, continuation or expansion of free food and so on. Say the numbers are in place and they can vote all the dream stuff for themselves. I get that it would take a while but can picture over time fewer and fewer showing up for work. Especially the really hard or disgusting jobs. I am pretty sure the way some past government programs were structured can be used as examples of this.
For example only one I have heard about is the way some benefit checks are structured. I have heard that if a person qualifies for some form of check there are restrictions about earning extra income. So the folks might be able to earn a bit more if they worked but would lose their check if they did work. So they do not work, at least on the books.
Had a fellow in my neighborhood. Hurt his knee on a job. Got awarded a disability check. He must have recovered a good deal because he took on hard physical labor jobs off the books. He did things such as cutting firewood to sell.
The other thing I have heard for decades are the rules surrounding child aid programs. Something like if an unwed mother wants to continue to receive government support checks for each child, then no adult male can be living with them. A consequence which has affected lives which was not necessairly expected nor planned for.

So if my examples hold true, then it may follow that among the consequences may be fewer and fewer who need to work and fewer who are willing to work. Seems logical to me that after a time the money to support these "free stuff" programs will become less and less. Maybe I am missing something in my thinking.

Again for example only let me apply the same sort of "what happens in the future" thinking to another proposed policy. That being the path to citizenship for many millions of illegal immigrants already in the USA and the additional multitudes already heading this way today. Say most, if not all, do become citizens. Will they qualify for all the free stuff programs at that time, same as any other citizen? Will they continue to be willing to work for lower wages as appears to be the case now? Immigration itself is not a bad thing, so do not take this example the wrong way.

Side note, the fellow with a disability income who sold firewood, also had children. Each of his children qualified for a check from the government. I also damaged a knee. Had to have surgery and have never been close to 100% since. I never applied for disability and did work on the books for a time. My work was not too physical which helped so I guess I should not be so bitter about my former neighbor.
 

Super-Genius

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People don’t want the truth, they just want their opinions and beliefs to come out of your mouth to reassure them that their little safe space hasn’t been sodomized with a cactus.
I gotta say Bro, when I go searching for "the truth" ... I'm gonna look you up :fistbump:
 

bootlegger

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Lol, It seems like you are unable to detach yourself from the situation. I was not making a personal attack against you. I receive a cost of living increase yearly as well. I worked hard and made several scarfices to get where I am at today. I am also an African-American. I am pretty well off for my age and ethnicity/race, but I am not talking about you or myself. I don't see how that is racist.

Not everyone who has college debt has a degree in basket weaving. Like I said before, if the wages rose with inflation as they did in the past college debt would be a non-issue. It started to become an issue in the late 80s and 90s. You can either look at the data and acknowledge the problem or just ignore it and come to a generalization which is what you are doing. Can't really do generalizations in my line of work.
I am an enginerd and data is my thing. The data shows that more higher education is a benefit to individuals and society. There is a reason why most of the wealthy countries have free university options.

http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.382.6913&rep=rep1&type=pdf
 

sk47

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I am an enginerd and data is my thing. The data shows that more higher education is a benefit to individuals and society. There is a reason why most of the wealthy countries have free university options.

http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.382.6913&rep=rep1&type=pdf
Hello; Read thru some of the link you provided. Very slick presentation. Two questions came to mind. First being what is the College Board and what is it's agenda? I have not done any research so cannot say myself. It it a neutral outfit which simply presents facts or is it in some way possibly an ad agency?
The other question is one I have asked before. If, as your link presents, college is a key to success and a better more well rounded life, then why are those with a degree having such a hard time paying back their student loans?

For what is may be worth the message about how college will benefit individuals and society is an old one. I had been hearing the same back in the early 1960's. I do believe at some period of time the message was true or at least mostly true.
I am not so sure about the overall benefits of a degree to a portion of students any longer. Have not been sure for a long time. Information about changes in college degrees comes from both personal experience and from paying attention over decades. .
My personal experience was being a teacher and a student. I did teach in the public schools and briefly at the college level. I was also required to keep taking college level classes over a few decades. So for what personal experience is worth, it is part of what forms my views.
Paying attention has not been hard. The stories and information about college grade inflation and some of the other issues are also not new.
One example for me was the classes I had to take to keep a teaching certification. It was basically a money thing with a push of education expert propaganda on the side. Never had to do much to get the grade in those classes. In fact several of the professors would tell us right away we would all get good grades if we showed up and passing grades even if we missed.

The word has been out about college degrees for a time. Not all college degrees are going to be wort less than it will cost to get them. Some degrees are still financially viable, it is just that a number are not. Perhaps a degree in education is a good example. My understand has been that for a while now teachers wages have not kept up with the cost of a degree in education. I have been out of teaching since 2004 so cannot say for sure about wages. Of course I taught in low wage states so there is that. Not states with strong unions pushing benefits for teachers.
Now a person with a good education who teaches school can be said to be a benefit to society I suppose.
My take, in part at least, is that other pressures are the spoilers of higher education. Things well cited in this thread. Things which have inflated the cost of a degree on one hand with stuff such as grade inflation and other things which have devalued degrees at the same time.

I have had the impression it was my "boomer " generation which started lots of the changes in American society. The large bulge of population after WWII started affecting most if not all institutions as we reached age milestones. From the much larger class sizes in the first grade al the way to college. There were just too many of us as a bulge hitting these institutions. Things had to change.
Enough for now from me. Some want "free stuff" programs from the government and no amount of logic or reality will change this. It may have been Margaret Thatcher who first said something to the effect that such "free" stuff government programs work fine until you run out of other peoples money.
 

bootlegger

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Hello; Read thru some of the link you provided. Very slick presentation. Two questions came to mind. First being what is the College Board and what is it's agenda? I have not done any research so cannot say myself. It it a neutral outfit which simply presents facts or is it in some way possibly an ad agency?
The other question is one I have asked before. If, as your link presents, college is a key to success and a better more well rounded life, then why are those with a degree having such a hard time paying back their student loans?

For what is may be worth the message about how college will benefit individuals and society is an old one. I had been hearing the same back in the early 1960's. I do believe at some period of time the message was true or at least mostly true.
I am not so sure about the overall benefits of a degree to a portion of students any longer. Have not been sure for a long time. Information about changes in college degrees comes from both personal experience and from paying attention over decades. .
My personal experience was being a teacher and a student. I did teach in the public schools and briefly at the college level. I was also required to keep taking college level classes over a few decades. So for what personal experience is worth, it is part of what forms my views.
Paying attention has not been hard. The stories and information about college grade inflation and some of the other issues are also not new.
One example for me was the classes I had to take to keep a teaching certification. It was basically a money thing with a push of education expert propaganda on the side. Never had to do much to get the grade in those classes. In fact several of the professors would tell us right away we would all get good grades if we showed up and passing grades even if we missed.

The word has been out about college degrees for a time. Not all college degrees are going to be wort less than it will cost to get them. Some degrees are still financially viable, it is just that a number are not. Perhaps a degree in education is a good example. My understand has been that for a while now teachers wages have not kept up with the cost of a degree in education. I have been out of teaching since 2004 so cannot say for sure about wages. Of course I taught in low wage states so there is that. Not states with strong unions pushing benefits for teachers.
Now a person with a good education who teaches school can be said to be a benefit to society I suppose.
My take, in part at least, is that other pressures are the spoilers of higher education. Things well cited in this thread. Things which have inflated the cost of a degree on one hand with stuff such as grade inflation and other things which have devalued degrees at the same time.

I have had the impression it was my "boomer " generation which started lots of the changes in American society. The large bulge of population after WWII started affecting most if not all institutions as we reached age milestones. From the much larger class sizes in the first grade al the way to college. There were just too many of us as a bulge hitting these institutions. Things had to change.
Enough for now from me. Some want "free stuff" programs from the government and no amount of logic or reality will change this. It may have been Margaret Thatcher who first said something to the effect that such "free" stuff government programs work fine until you run out of other peoples money.
College Board has been around long before you and I. Their bias is basically towards helping kids receive the resources they need to complete higher education. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/College_Board
But their bias doesn't even matter. You can clearly see the citations in the presentation, which mostly comes from the US government. There are numerous research papers out there to back up the numbers and claims in that presentation.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/04/190429095044.htm
https://www.newscientist.com/articl...what-makes-people-live-longer-not-more-money/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3188849/

In regards to your statement about student dept, we get back to my original points that college costs too much today. That is linked to my other point about state funds for colleges being reduced over the last decade. College shouldn't be expensive, and there should be numerous options to go for free. Right now, only the top tier students ever get that option.
 

bootlegger

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This is an important paragraph from the research I posted:
" This finding, that well-informed reasoning about the risk of disease and the adoption of prevention strategies occur over the life course, is likely to be the causal mechanism behind the associations between education and mortality reported in the meta-analysis above. Intelligence certainly plays a causal role in reducing mortality, but formal schooling adds significant value to innate ability in the form of higher-order cognitive skills crucial to decisions about health. "

Very relevant in today's world, where your high school facebook buddies, who couldn't pass basic biology, are now confident giving medical advice about vaccines, dieting, disease prevention, etc.
 

FreePenguin

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College Board has been around long before you and I. Their bias is basically towards helping kids receive the resources they need to complete higher education. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/College_Board
But their bias doesn't even matter. You can clearly see the citations in the presentation, which mostly comes from the US government. There are numerous research papers out there to back up the numbers and claims in that presentation.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/04/190429095044.htm
https://www.newscientist.com/articl...what-makes-people-live-longer-not-more-money/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3188849/

In regards to your statement about student dept, we get back to my original points that college costs too much today. That is linked to my other point about state funds for colleges being reduced over the last decade. College shouldn't be expensive, and there should be numerous options to go for free. Right now, only the top tier students ever get that option.
your comment about top students being free- what’s wrong with that exactly? Exceptional students that literally earned those rides shouldn’t get it? Imo they competed.

The classclown kid in school imo shouldn’t get a free ride or equal opportunity as that exceptional one.
 
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