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Stereo Information (Wiring, Upgrades, etc...)

Evolvd

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Any ideas on where to mount external crossovers? With the 6-speaker system (2-way front components), behind the kick panels are a no-go. Too many harnesses and a fuse box on the passenger side, and the hood release on the drivers side.
Unfortunately I don't have the 3-way wiring behind the door panels so I can't use that.
There seems to be a bit of room behind the dash/under the head unit if I can move the scosche module far enough out of the way, but I still have RCA's and remote wire to run for a sub amp.
The drivers kick panel above and forward of the hood pull should have plenty of space since you don’t have a stock amplifier there.
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DeepImpactS550

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The drivers kick panel above and forward of the hood pull should have plenty of space since you don’t have a stock amplifier there.
Thank you for the suggestion. I hadn't pulled the driver side off yet, due to having to tackle removing the hood release handle. If there's that much room up there, worst case, I could mount both crossovers on that side, and just route the passenger side tweeter wire all the way across under the dash. There didn't seem to be much room on the passenger side with the fuse box at the front.
 

Evolvd

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Thank you for the suggestion. I hadn't pulled the driver side off yet, due to having to tackle removing the hood release handle. If there's that much room up there, worst case, I could mount both crossovers on that side, and just route the passenger side tweeter wire all the way across under the dash. There didn't seem to be much room on the passenger side with the fuse box at the front.
The hood release comes off pretty easy and then you can pull that panel easily as well. I ran my tweeter wires under the dash and then fished it behind the center section against the firewall using an extended wire shirt hanger.
 

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I broke the mechanism twice while trying to remove that lever. In my car it’s pretty stubborn.
 

DeepImpactS550

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I broke the mechanism twice while trying to remove that lever. In my car it’s pretty stubborn.
Yeah. I read that there's a cap you have to remove with push tabs inside it. Haven't tried to tackle it yet. I decided to attempt mounting my crossovers behind the dash. I used doubled-up long plastic ties to secure them. They are installed but it may have been a mistake. They are too thick for the scosche module to sit flat, so the head unit above it barely fits. I had to yank on the wires from the bottom as I pushed the head unit back in order to make room. I still have to wire the crossovers, and will eventually run additional wires (remote and rca's for a sub amp). I doubt I'll have enough room then.

Has anyone who has done the scosche kit found a good place to locate the module? I'm finding that even after popping out most of the push clips attached to the factory harnesses, there's still not much slack to move the module around (with wires attached).

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I was going to attempt to install as shown here, but they are too long to sit flat behind that metal frame in front. Maybe I could bend the tabs forward? Also tried to install them on the angled frame on either side of the head unit. They physically fit back there, out of the way of the head unit but I couldn't find a good way to secure them.
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DeepImpactS550

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About ready to just give up on it, or possibly even sell the car. Spent most of the day wiring up one side. Connected the crossovers, running tweeter wires up the A-Pillars, basically using the crossover as an intermediate between the head unit amp. I ran the woofer connection out of the crossover to the factory door speaker wiring, and ran a new tweeter wire up from the crossovers to a-pillar for the new component tweeters. I mounted them using thin butyl rubber "rope" that the tweeters came with and the front sleeve from the surface mounts. I have not upgraded the mids from the component set yet. I'm still on the powerbass mids I had replaced before. Sound is about the same, and I'd argue the tweeters even sound a bit worse.
So I'm left to blame either the stock wiring, the door design (midrange harshness), and/or the position of the tweeter further back with an obstructive grille in front of it. Put your hand in front of a tweeter playing loudly in open air. It will sound extremely harsh because the sound is being deflected.
I have some fast rings I will add when I upgrade the door speakers (in front and behind). I'll be finding a spare set of A-Pillar covers at a junk yard so I can dremel things out and flush mount the tweeters without the factory grilles. If there's no improvement from any of that, i'm basically throwing in the towel.

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I know why i usually recommend a capable DSP or amplifier with integrated DSP.
 

StangTime

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About ready to just give up on it, or possibly even sell the car. Spent most of the day wiring up one side. Connected the crossovers, running tweeter wires up the A-Pillars, basically using the crossover as an intermediate between the head unit amp. I ran the woofer connection out of the crossover to the factory door speaker wiring, and ran a new tweeter wire up from the crossovers to a-pillar for the new component tweeters. I mounted them using thin butyl rubber "rope" that the tweeters came with and the front sleeve from the surface mounts. I have not upgraded the mids from the component set yet. I'm still on the powerbass mids I had replaced before. Sound is about the same, and I'd argue the tweeters even sound a bit worse.
So I'm left to blame either the stock wiring, the door design (midrange harshness), and/or the position of the tweeter further back with an obstructive grille in front of it. Put your hand in front of a tweeter playing loudly in open air. It will sound extremely harsh because the sound is being deflected.
I have some fast rings I will add when I upgrade the door speakers (in front and behind). I'll be finding a spare set of A-Pillar covers at a junk yard so I can dremel things out and flush mount the tweeters without the factory grilles. If there's no improvement from any of that, i'm basically throwing in the towel.

20230116_154403.jpg


20230116_154437.jpg
All is not lost. I think you've got some issues here that can be dealt with.

Can you explain how your system is now connected? Was this a 2-way speaker kit that you bought? Are you still using the factory amp or an aftermarket one? The tweeter position can be improved, but that can be done later.
 

DeepImpactS550

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All is not lost. I think you've got some issues here that can be dealt with.

Can you explain how your system is now connected? Was this a 2-way speaker kit that you bought? Are you still using the factory amp or an aftermarket one? The tweeter position can be improved, but that can be done later.
I mentioned it earlier in the thread but I will summarize for you. It's a 2-way component set. I have a 2016 base model v6. It has no external amp. The ACM (CD Player) is the factory amp. I upgraded to the Scosche Dash kit and a Kenwood Excelon DDX-396, which is the current amp.

I was running the Powerbass OE65C-FD OEM Plug-N-Play upgrade kit. It was literally a drop-in for the stock speakers, tweeters even had factory locking connectors. Unfortunately they didnt sound much better than factory, other than the bass. They still had the same harsh, shouty, ringing midrange (both are treated paper cone woofers). Tweeters were not sibilant until high volume, but shared that similar harshness, which is not how a silk dome is supposed to sound. I purchased a set of Sound Ordnance (Crutchfield) P67CB components, and have only installed one of the tweeters for now. I'll be doing the other side today. The mids in this kit are poly, so I'm curious to hear how the sound changes. If you haven't read through the history, I basically have the entire midrange scooped out of the 13-band EQ, and much of the lower treble, all the way to the bottom (-9dB). It sounds that bad, like someone shouting certain frequencies into my ear with a megaphone. For work, I have access to a Chevrolet Colorado WT, Chevrolet Sonic, Nissan Kicks, and Chevrolet City Express. None of them display these traits with the factory system. They're all very inoffensive.
 

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I mentioned it earlier in the thread but I will summarize for you. It's a 2-way component set. I have a 2016 base model v6. It has no external amp. The ACM (CD Player) is the factory amp. I upgraded to the Scosche Dash kit and a Kenwood Excelon DDX-396, which is the current amp.

I was running the Powerbass OE65C-FD OEM Plug-N-Play upgrade kit. It was literally a drop-in for the stock speakers, tweeters even had factory locking connectors. Unfortunately they didnt sound much better than factory, other than the bass. They still had the same harsh, shouty, ringing midrange (both are treated paper cone woofers). Tweeters were not sibilant until high volume, but shared that similar harshness, which is not how a silk dome is supposed to sound. I purchased a set of Sound Ordnance (Crutchfield) P67CB components, and have only installed one of the tweeters for now. I'll be doing the other side today. The mids in this kit are poly, so I'm curious to hear how the sound changes. If you haven't read through the history, I basically have the entire midrange scooped out of the 13-band EQ, and much of the lower treble, all the way to the bottom (-9dB). It sounds that bad, like someone shouting certain frequencies into my ear with a megaphone. For work, I have access to a Chevrolet Colorado WT, Chevrolet Sonic, Nissan Kicks, and Chevrolet City Express. None of them display these traits with the factory system. They're all very inoffensive.
Ok. I was thinking you had the 9 speaker system because you keep mentioning the word "mids" but you are actually referring to the mid-bass 6.5" drivers. So Kenwood headunit driving a 2-way cross-over and the cross-over wired to the respective P67CB component speakers. Nothing obviously wrong with that. Having to scoop out the entire midrange on the EQ is odd though. I assume by this point you have made sure the polarity of all the drivers is correct. Have you tried the -3db tweeter setting? Having the tweeter recessed into a cavity like that can horn-load the tweeter. Imagine the sound produced when you speak into a carboard toilet paper roll. It will amplify certain frequencies. Get the tweeter out of the pit and mount it like this:
1674243373009.png


If the harshness persists after moving the tweeter out, it may just be the characteristics of the speakers you bought.
 

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StangTime

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I just thought of something after looking at the Kenwood deck. You could run the 2-way active right off the head unit. No need for an external crossover and you may be able to balance the sound better. This is assuming you do not need rear speakers. This will also allow you to set independent levels and time delay for each speaker.
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Run the White and Grey direct to your mid-bass. Green and Purple wires to your tweeters. Make sure you set a high pass cross-over on the tweeter channels first before connecting them and running power through them. Tweeters can be damaged by playing content below their resonant frequency. See page 41 and Page 66 for all available crossover settings.
 

DeepImpactS550

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Ok. I was thinking you had the 9 speaker system because you keep mentioning the word "mids" but you are actually referring to the mid-bass 6.5" drivers. So Kenwood headunit driving a 2-way cross-over and the cross-over wired to the respective P67CB component speakers. Nothing obviously wrong with that. Having to scoop out the entire midrange on the EQ is odd though. I assume by this point you have made sure the polarity of all the drivers is correct. Have you tried the -3db tweeter setting? Having the tweeter recessed into a cavity like that can horn-load the tweeter. Imagine the sound produced when you speak into a carboard toilet paper roll. It will amplify certain frequencies. Get the tweeter out of the pit and mount it like this:
1674243373009.png


If the harshness persists after moving the tweeter out, it may just be the characteristics of the speakers you bought.
That's exactly what I was thinking. I noticed if I test the tweeters at home, if my hand, or even a piece of speaker wire gets in front of the tweeter, it sounds harsh. I would have flush mounted if the Sound Ordnance tweeters would have fit. They have a threaded ring on the flush mount cup. It is too big to fit inside the opening. I had to use the front part of the surface mounts to install them with butyl rope. I was thinking of getting a pair of decently affordable separate tweeters (infinity, polk db1001) which I know will fit (from forum posts), and just using them with my existing crossovers. I have ancient pairs of Lanzar Titanium, and Silk dome tweeters, and an old pair of elemental designs tweeters from the edi6000s components. All of those would have fit inside the A-pillar opening if I dremeled out the factory tweeter mount. They aren't threaded though, so I'd have to fabricate something to hold them in place. What model are your Hertz (Dieci), and how much work was it to get them flush mounted?

I have definitely checked the polarity. I may purposely test them in reverse, as I've read it can help with harshness and soundstage. I have not tried the -3dB setting, but they are adjusted at least that far in the radio. The kenwood has a +/- 8dB gain adjustment for the tweeters with a selectable center frequency. I have it on -8 @ 1khz, with the additional cut in the EQ. It somehow works, even with the component configuration. Basically cuts everything above 1khz by 8dB.

If the harshness persists after moving the tweeter out, it may just be the characteristics of the speakers you bought.
The factory, Powerbass, and now the Sound Ordnance, all share a similar harshness, so I'd bet it's the "recessed" position of the tweeter.
 
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All this could be solved with the help of a DSP.
Even if you got a Focal K2 system it would not sound good given the locations of the speakers, passive crossovers and no way to equalize the response.
 

DeepImpactS550

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All this could be solved with the help of a DSP.
Even if you got a Focal K2 system it would not sound good given the locations of the speakers, passive crossovers and no way to equalize the response.
You may have convinced me. I may eventually bite the bullet and just Install an additional amp + dsp. Already purchased one for a subwoofer. I'd really like to keep the rear deck speakers for rear fill. I'm not sure how I'd do that without still being forced to go through the front crossovers. It appears there are 6-channel amps, so I may look into that.
I do have a USB Audio interface and a pair of RTA mics. I could measure the response manually, but without a DSP, I'd be guessing at the EQ. Do the better DSP units take that measurement and set an EQ curve from it?

A few other things. I noticed there's a nasty rattle in the driver side door caused by the cables for the window motor touching the back of the large clear vapor barrier. Both motors were replaced by the dealer under warranty, but i'm not sure if that had anything to do with it. I was thinking about getting a roll of 1/8" or 1/4" adhesive-backed foam and sticking it to the inside of the vapor barrier. What do you think? There is already foam wrapped around the cables where they touch the plastic but there's still a rattle.

Also, I removed the factory grilles from the tweeters and the sound changed. They became a bit smoother. I'm thinking the "horn loading" idea may be true, especially considering the new tweeters are actually back a bit further than the stock tweeters, with the outer frame from the stock tweeters partly in the way. I would love to dremel away the openings until the threaded flush mount cups will fit but don't want to ruin the a-pillars if it doesn't work. Was trying to find a spare used set but that is difficult. I have also found that after installing the new 6 3/4" woofers, they sound much smoother now. I only had to drop 1.6k, 2.5k, and 4k, and a small amount in the mids. If I could just mellow out the tweeters, the system may be palatable.
 

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If you want rearfill you need a DSP that is capable of doing differential rearfill, means Helix or Mosconi and probably larger amounts of $ (way more expensive in the US than in Germany afaik).
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