Starting issues

[whatsup62]

This might not be the right place for this...so Mods feel free to move if needed....just thought all the smart people are in here..
Out of the blue I am having starting issues with the car. Normal start process was always clutch down foot on brake and push button. Now if I do that all the accessories come on but car doesn't try to start. I get two messages -push clutch down (which it is) and run power active. Dont recall ever seeing that before. If I push the start button multiple times the car will do a quick engine turn over. If I hold the button down when it does the quick turn over it continues to crank and start up fine. Its almost like the start button has become an old fashion start button. Anyone have had this issue or any thoughts?

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[svtfever]

not sure if this will be relevant but mine and others cars starter was loose from the factory.

 

[mm2015]

Have you recently loaded a tune? Try loading your stock tune and then re-load the tune. My car did this and would not sure when I loaded my first tune (thought I was done for).

 

[whatsup62]

Have you recently loaded a tune? Try loading your stock tune and then re-load the tune. My car did this and would not sure when I loaded my first tune (thought I was done for).

I did load the FF tune but had ran the car on 93 for a day or two to get tank down to try E85. So yes but car ran fine then boom. I actually have it where I can drive it and start it now but I have to do this. Foot on brake, push button and hold in then push on clutch. Car will start right up...anything out of that sequence it wont turnover.

 

[whatsup62]

Off to the dealer

Well....i've tried all suggestions and some of my own with no success. Also another issue has arose and not sure how they would be related but I dont think its a coincidence. Going to probably have to go to dealer on a full tank of E85...should be interesting.

First issue as I described above. Manual car, car will not start like normal. If I try the start button through the normal sequence it blinks at me. To start car i have to put foot on brake with car in N, push start button first then depress clutch pedal - fires right up.

Second issue charging system seems to be doing strange things. Morning start cars shows voltage 14.1-14.4. After driving for a while it comes down in the 13.0 range. After a hour or so is when things seem abnormal. Driving normally it will go to 12.5 - 12.7 range. When coming to a stop it drops to 12.1 - Ngauge goes off. Take off from stop goes back up to 12.7. If I do a hard accelerate it goes up to he 14 range. If I motor break it goes up to the 14 range but both conditions short lived as it goes back to 12.5 - 12.7 then if I completely stop 12.1.
Frustration. :frusty:

 

[FordTechOne]

Well....i've tried all suggestions and some of my own with no success. Also another issue has arose and not sure how they would be related but I dont think its a coincidence. Going to probably have to go to dealer on a full tank of E85...should be interesting.

First issue as I described above. Manual car, car will not start like normal. If I try the start button through the normal sequence it blinks at me. To start car i have to put foot on brake with car in N, push start button first then depress clutch pedal - fires right up.

Sounds like it may be tune related, I have never heard of that before. If there is a fault with the starting system, it will display "starting system fault" in the IPC and then set a DTC to indicate the nature of the failure.

Second issue charging system seems to be doing strange things. Morning start cars shows voltage 14.1-14.4. After driving for a while it comes down in the 13.0 range. After a hour or so is when things seem abnormal. Driving normally it will go to 12.5 - 12.7 range. When coming to a stop it drops to 12.1 - Ngauge goes off. Take off from stop goes back up to 12.7. If I do a hard accelerate it goes up to he 14 range. If I motor break it goes up to the 14 range but both conditions short lived as it goes back to 12.5 - 12.7 then if I completely stop 12.1.
Frustration. :frusty:

What makes you think that there is an issue with the charging system except for the voltage readings? These cars use a "smart charge" system, which has been around for years. The PCM controls the generator output based on electrical system load, engine RPM, temperature, etc. Therefore, it's normal for it to charge at approximately 14V during startup, then drop down to approximately 13 during operation. 12.1 does seem low (typically it will be 12.5 or greater), however if no other issues are present and there are no warning messages, I would not be concerned with it.

 

[whatsup62]

Sounds like it may be tune related, I have never heard of that before. If there is a fault with the starting system, it will display "starting system fault" in the IPC and then set a DTC to indicate the nature of the failure.



What makes you think that there is an issue with the charging system except for the voltage readings? These cars use a "smart charge" system, which has been around for years. The PCM controls the generator output based on electrical system load, engine RPM, temperature, etc. Therefore, it's normal for it to charge at approximately 14V during startup, then drop down to approximately 13 during operation. 12.1 does seem low (typically it will be 12.5 or greater), however if no other issues are present and there are no warning messages, I would not be concerned with it.

The reason i think there might be an issue is that it never did this before. I have had the Ngauge for a while now and set the min threshold to less than 12.7 for shutting down...never had an issue. When this starting thing started happened once i got the car running I drove it, The ngauge started to shut down and I noticed the voltage was at 12.5. I revved the engine and it came back on when reaching 12.7. Then at stops 12.1. The 12.1 has to be straight battery voltage doesn't it?
One thing i haven't done is flash it back to the original 93 tune from the FF tune. I will have to drive a bit to get the E85 out of it first...worth a try.

 

[FordTechOne]

The reason i think there might be an issue is that it never did this before. I have had the Ngauge for a while now and set the min threshold to less than 12.7 for shutting down...never had an issue. When this starting thing started happened once i got the car running I drove it, The ngauge started to shut down and I noticed the voltage was at 12.5. I revved the engine and it came back on when reaching 12.7. Then at stops 12.1. The 12.1 has to be straight battery voltage doesn't it?
One thing i haven't done is flash it back to the original 93 tune from the FF tune. I will have to drive a bit to get the E85 out of it first...worth a try.

Interesting. Straight battery voltage is 12.6, which is why I mentioned that 12.1 seems low. When it's down to 12.1, the charging system is not contributing, and the battery is slightly discharged.

As I mentioned, the charging system is controlled entirely by the PCM. With your aftermarket calibration, it may be affecting the PCM's charging system strategy. As you said, I'd re-flash it to factory and see if the condition is alleviated.

 

[whatsup62]

Update,
So I went and purchased a battery charger. Took it home and connected to battery and it showed battery at 68% charge. Left the charger on it and reflashed to stock tune. My starting sequence did not change (of course car would not run). Then reflashed to the JLT 93 Lund tune I had ran for months with no issues, starting sequence still incorrect. Reflashed a third time with the FF tune so I could drive the car. The charging voltage went right to 14.1. It has been in the 14.1 - 14.4 all day and I think the reflash has corrected that issue. The starting issue is not corrected. Still have to hold button in then depress clutch pedal in that order for the car to start. Took it to the dealership to discuss it. They have never seen or heard of the problem and want to point it at the reflashed PCM. Suggested I talk to Lund and see if anyone else has had this problem. My side of things after reflashing it 3 times with three different tunes and the issue still remained it is not in the tune. So not sure what my next step is on resolving this.

 

[GDP]

If it does it on stock tune then make them prove it was flashing the ecu that caused it. They can't deny warranty work unless they can prove it.

 

[craigsix]

one thing diablo told me to do was hold positive and negative cables together for 15 seconds. i had the run power active code when my programmer wasnt updated all the way. hey were you on the nam mini forums before?

 

[Wvmike]

Check your clutch switch.

 

[whatsup62]

one thing diablo told me to do was hold positive and negative cables together for 15 seconds. i had the run power active code when my programmer wasnt updated all the way. hey were you on the nam mini forums before?

I will try.
Nan mini forums?

 

[FordTechOne]

I will try.
Nan mini forums?

That procedure essentially discharges all of the capacitors on the vehicle. The procedure is to disconnect the negative battery terminal, disconnect the positive battery terminal, and then touch both cable ends together (harness side, NOT battery terminals) to eliminate all remaining energy in the system.

 

[markmurfie]

Clutch switch could be the problem. Did you remove the assistant spring? If so make sure the the switch is still in the correct position and any wires for it are not pinched or rubbing with something to do with the brake pedal.


battery charger says 68% and voltage reads 12.1. I would say you have a failing battery or an intermittent alternator which with the smart charge is hard to tell from watching the voltage. you would need to put the battery through a load test. If you have a good multi meter you can do it your self.
very simple.
[ame]

The other concern would be a parasitic draw. you don't have aftermarket stereo equipment do you?

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