STAGE 2 ProCharger Systems for 2015 Mustangs, RELEASED!

[95cobby]

What fuel components do you recommend running with the stage 2 kit on e85? Maybe even pullied at 10psi..

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[TwinTurboMustang.net]

I'm a little concerned about the 52-lb injectors that come with the HO/Stage2 kits. I did some calculation based on some fuel-injector size formula for superchargers and it seems to say 52-lb injectors are recommended up to 550 RWHP with 60-lb injectors for up to 632 RWHP. Also, at 9 PSI and the correct amount of fuel, looks like the stock tune on a phase 2 might be around 580 RWHP.

Do you know the RWHP I can get on 9 PSI with 52-lb injectors and your stock tune versus a custom tune on 9 PSI with 52-lb injectors? If I went to 60-lb injectors, do I get more RWHP at 9 PSI using a custom tune than I would with 52-lb injectors?

Details about the injector calculations I used can be found here: http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14927&page=19
Thanks!

Power is not what you should look at here. That's just a rough estimate. Injector duty cycle is what you are asking "Is it safe"? Well 80% IDC is where you want to be, not at 90+%. With a custom tune, you will make more power most likely. These kits on 9-10psi will need 60lb plus injector size. The 52lb or 550cc are great for 8psi + custom tune. Remember Turbo cars ask for the most fuel, followed by Supercharged cars. The BSFC is higher for Turbo cars. "Brake Specific Fuel Consumption".

 

[Process]

What fuel components do you recommend running with the stage 2 kit on e85? Maybe even pullied at 10psi..

ID1000 with a BAP at a minimum running around 20-21v. Dual pump with walboro 465's is most ideal, but not required. To really make an E85 setup work well, you'll want a stainless mesh fuel filter and pumps coated for ethanol, hence the walboro/ti automotive 465.

 

[phunk]

It has been my experience that supercharged engines are less fuel efficient... Often reaching fuel system capacity much sooner (HP-wise) than the same engine turbocharged. There is a difficult to measure portion of engine power consumed by the supercharger straight off the front of the crank, as it's essentially a massive engine accessory.

 

[phunk]

ID1000 with a BAP at a minimum running around 20-21v. Dual pump with walboro 465's is most ideal, but not required. To really make an E85 setup work well, you'll want a stainless mesh fuel filter and pumps coated for ethanol, hence the walboro/ti automotive 465.

I agree id1000s are a great injector for e85 street cars. I have been running them about 4 years in what has been my daily driver up until this winter.

I would say that dual Walbro e85 even at just standard voltage is a bit more fuel than 1000cc injectors need, especially if you are running adequate feed lines. But if cramming through stock 5/16 or 3/8 lines than a lot of pump helps combat that pressure loss.

In my experiences the extra corrosion resistant internals for the fuel system are not needed if the car is very regularly driven and the fuel system is properly sealed tight. I have 2 cars with several years on standard paper filters and non-e85 "rated" pumps and all is well upon inspections. Cleaner than gasoline used parts. But, all bets are off when you let air and moisture into the system which is when the ethanol produces aggressive acids.

 

[Process]

I agree id1000s are a great injector for e85 street cars. I have been running them about 4 years in what has been my daily driver up until this winter.

I would say that dual Walbro e85 even at just standard voltage is a bit more fuel than 1000cc injectors need, especially if you are running adequate feed lines. But if cramming through stock 5/16 or 3/8 lines than a lot of pump helps combat that pressure loss.

In my experiences the extra corrosion resistant internals for the fuel system are not needed if the car is very regularly driven and the fuel system is properly sealed tight. I have 2 cars with several years on standard paper filters and non-e85 "rated" pumps and all is well upon inspections. Cleaner than gasoline used parts. But, all bets are off when you let air and moisture into the system which is when the ethanol produces aggressive acids.

i've seen the non corrosion resistant pump, the 405, die under a few hundred miles running E85. Hence my recommendation for the 465. Yes, dual 465's is massive fuel overhead and will take you to about 900-1000rwhp on E85, but for the low price, why not run them?

 

[phunk]

It happens but it's not the normal. There is another factor besides the e85 alone when pumps or injectors are killed. I have even seen e85 corrosion put a pinhole in an aluminum fuel rail. But this is not the norm for a well built and sealed system. We have a few e85 cars (customers cars not personally owned) that made it to 920-950 with a 255 primary pump and walbro e85 secondary that is energized under boost... Just for reference/comparison.

 

[Process]

It happens but it's not the normal. There is another factor besides the e85 alone when pumps or injectors are killed. I have even seen e85 corrosion put a pinhole in an aluminum fuel rail. But this is not the norm for a well built and sealed system. We have a few e85 cars (customers cars not personally owned) that made it to 920-950 with a 255 primary pump and walbro e85 secondary that is energized under boost... Just for reference/comparison.

There's many ways to skin a cat. Path of least resistance was what I recommended though

 

[phunk]

2015 is going to be the year of PWM single pumps starting to displace the use of all the multiple pump assemblies. There's some really kick ass and compact pumps coming out in the next few months. Borrowed from OEM applications (all these high power late model cars) so they are solid and reliable... Aftermarket companies are just refining their independent controllers before they can hit the market.

 

[Process]

2015 is going to be the year of PWM single pumps starting to displace the use of all the multiple pump assemblies. There's some really kick ass and compact pumps coming out in the next few months. Borrowed from OEM applications so they are solid and reliable... companies are just refining their independent controllers before they can hit the market.

I have not kept up, so no more need for expensive return style setups?

Although the GT pump only really runs at two speeds, I did not classify the pumps the same as the PWM's found in the gt500.

 

[phunk]

Return style... You know the benefits of the return style., some of which are irreplaceable. 1:1 differential pressure which is essentially required for higher boost setups. Moving your regulator to after the rails means you are regulating pressure after sources of pressure drop. This is critical if you are trying to push the most through a smaller feed line than you should really be running (most guys between 600-800hp). I would personally move to a return style for over 650hp or so regardless of what pump(s) is in the tank.

I should probably stop posting all the off-topic fuel system chat in this thread though I am beginning to feel guilty!

 

[Process]

Oh I don't disagree with you. Although the 15 does use a large pump so using the Bap while in the lower portion of 700hp on e85 is about as far as I'd go before switching system types.

 

[ProChargerTECH]

I'm a little concerned about the 52-lb injectors that come with the HO/Stage2 kits. I did some calculation based on some fuel-injector size formula for superchargers and it seems to say 52-lb injectors are recommended up to 550 RWHP with 60-lb injectors for up to 632 RWHP. Also, at 9 PSI and the correct amount of fuel, looks like the stock tune on a phase 2 might be around 580 RWHP.

Do you know the RWHP I can get on 9 PSI with 52-lb injectors and your stock tune versus a custom tune on 9 PSI with 52-lb injectors? If I went to 60-lb injectors (http://www.americanmuscle.com/mustang-ev6-60-injectors.html?source=igodigital), do I get more RWHP at 9 PSI using a custom tune than I would with 52-lb injectors?

Details about the injector calculations I used can be found here: http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14927&page=19
Thanks!

We don't have to rely on "calculations"

I can tell you on our Mustang Dyno our car has no issues making 640rwhp on the stock injectors we ship, and the stock fuel pump. (no voltage booster)

Obviously the MAK performance car is also at 598rwhp on the same injectors, and I believe no fuel pump voltage booster as well.

 

[GoodEye]

@ProChargerTECH –*what kind of HP can I expect from the Stage II with crappy CA 91 fuel? Car is completely stock.

 

[ProChargerTECH]

@ProChargerTECH –*what kind of HP can I expect from the Stage II with crappy CA 91 fuel? Car is completely stock.

Are you doing a full system with our tune and injectors?
The fuel quality in your area is going to be the biggest factor.
However keeping the low boost of 9psi, and the safe tune on that fuel......
One would have to guess 570-610rwhp.


The limit of the fuel pump and injectors is going to be around 650rwhp.
If you decided to ever turn up the boost a little.


I was recently out in Cali and a 100% totally stock 2012 Stang on 91 and 7psi made 593rwhp. (with our stock conservative tuning)
Which was well beyond expectations for the owner, based on his knowledge of how bad his fuel around him was (Newport Beach area)
So thats what I am basing my guess off of. With a little more boost you should be about the same, due to the drivetrain losses these 2015's have vs. the 2012 car I spoke of.

Hope this helps!

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