SCCA ESP Thread

[murphyslaww]

correct, rear coilovers aren't legal in ESP, per 15.8.A. a slight pisser, since the math tells me that i'm going to need a 1000lbs+ spring in the stock location (bordering on custom wound territory), but it is what it is.

So, what is Cortex doing with theirs ? Spring-wise?

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[boardkat]

So, what is Cortex doing with theirs ? Spring-wise?

not 1000lbs+
coilover motion ratios are superior in this application

 

[murphyslaww]

So, who if anyone thinks they will be running ESP at Nats ?

I doubt it in my case. I'm wondering how far I could get in STU with Springs, bushings, and bars. Maybe Koni/SA's if I make some work, or they get released in time.

I'd have to be beating the local STU guys with new tires before I made that call. I may be getting close. I think that might get me to mid-pack which I would be proud of in my first Nats.

I kind of need to decide in the next month, as I'd be buying 19x11's and 305 RS-3's if I stay CAM or think I'd make it to ESP, or 275 RE-71's if I take a half hearted run at STU.

I'll probably run ESP at the Mineral Wells Pro. I'm not sure how I feel about the fact that they seem to be giving full Pro points for CAM classes with only two members in them. I ran CAM at the tour, but had some remorse as I probably could have opened up another trophy in ESP for someone if I had run ESP. I would have just been out $80 in mounting fees.

 

[boardkat]

So, who if anyone thinks they will be running ESP at Nats ?

yep.

finally got my 18x11s the other day, and paired them with fresh 315s of the A7 and rival s variety. not much i can do with em yet though; fronts are rubbing the struts due to the camber bolts - should have my MCS doubles and plates by the end of the month. THEN the fun begins! it's gonna be a mad dash trying to work through setup and driving ahead of lincoln, so i'm just gonna enjoy the journey! didn't expect it to be such a struggle getting the car ready, but such is the life of being early adopters.

 

[murphyslaww]

Yeah, it kind of made sense with the 08' wrx to have to wait, but I didn't expect parts to trickle this slowly.

I'm juggling the prep against a big family ski trip this winter, so I'm leaning on the trip right now, and may just look at 2016. I'll be a Nats noob anyway, so I may want to lessen the mental pressure the first year By just running CAM.

 

[Grintch]

can you guys tell me which class i need to run in?

20x10 wheels all the way around with 275 front 305 rear

catback exhaust

lowering springs

Non stock springs and wheels bumps you out of Street (formerly Stock).
305mm tire bumps you out of STU (285mm limit for RWD cars).
No one makes any good R compound tires in 20" diameters, so a bad choice for ESP.
Leaving CAM.

 

[TXskydiver]

I really need some help with ESP class wheels and tires.

What sizes and brands are everyone running? I will be the first S550 in my club's ESP class and need some guidance as I am new to the sport.

Will 295mm wide tires fit in the front without rubbing or camber adjustment? 19x9.5 rims ok on a tire this wide?

Looking for a square set up so I can rotate and hopefully extend the life of these tires as budget is an issue.

Thanks in advance for your help!

 

[boardkat]

i have forgestar cf5 +56 18x11 w/ 315/30R18 hoosier A7 and enkei pf01 18x10.5 +38 w/ 305/30R18 hoosier H2O

that said, they've been collecting dust for a few months waiting for my MCS struts/shocks and vorshlag plates to arrive (next week i'm told, finally!!!!!!). for one, with the camber bolts i'm currently running to max out at -3.5, even with a 20mm spacer up front there is tire interference with the strut body. regardless, there's waaaaaaay too much roll and pitching/diving on eibach springs that can't be controlled with the stock dampers, and i'm not willing to sacrifice a sticker set of tires as a result!

however, i have been taking the car out to local events on my old S197 FS 19x9 +36 w/ 295/30R19 a6 setup; not ideal, but they mount up fine, with occasional rubbing at full lock under load:

if you're looking to keep costs down, 18" hoosiers are cheaper than 19", but you'll struggle to find any 18" wheels to clear the 6pots, other than going with custom/pricey options. at this moment, the only other off-the-shelf option that has confirmed clearance, other than the cf5/pf01, is the HRE FF15. forgeline and ccw will build you a $$$$$$$$et though

if you're new and want a square setup with some stick for fun, i'm sure you could run a stock 19x9.5 rear up front (maybe with a small spacer) and 295 hoosier takeoffs from somebody like john berget tires (or your local road racers) at very reasonable prices.

 

[phrenetiK]

why do you guys ignore spacers when thinking of 18 inch wheel options, such an easy way to make them clear the brakes

 

[boardkat]

why do you guys ignore spacers when thinking of 18 inch wheel options, such an easy way to make them clear the brakes

it's barrel clearance, nothing a spacer can help with. the calipers *literally* won't fit inside the barrel on most wheels, because of the size of the caliper and the way the wheels were cast (resulting in a barrel taper). i'm speaking from experience test fitting all of my old S197 18" wheels (9-11" wide) with up to 30mm of spacers (resulting offsets in the range of +56 to +13), and there are many other confirmations across the board if you search. it's not from lack of trying, trust me

 

[TXskydiver]

i have forgestar cf5 +56 18x11 w/ 315/30R18 hoosier A7 and enkei pf01 18x10.5 +38 w/ 305/30R18 hoosier H2O

that said, they've been collecting dust for a few months waiting for my MCS struts/shocks and vorshlag plates to arrive (next week i'm told, finally!!!!!!). for one, with the camber bolts i'm currently running to max out at -3.5, even with a 20mm spacer up front there is tire interference with the strut body. regardless, there's waaaaaaay too much roll and pitching/diving on eibach springs that can't be controlled with the stock dampers, and i'm not willing to sacrifice a sticker set of tires as a result!

however, i have been taking the car out to local events on my old S197 FS 19x9 +36 w/ 295/30R19 a6 setup; not ideal, but they mount up fine, with occasional rubbing at full lock under load:

if you're looking to keep costs down, 18" hoosiers are cheaper than 19", but you'll struggle to find any 18" wheels to clear the 6pots, other than going with custom/pricey options. at this moment, the only other off-the-shelf option that has confirmed clearance, other than the cf5/pf01, is the HRE FF15. forgeline and ccw will build you a $$$$$$$$et though

if you're new and want a square setup with some stick for fun, i'm sure you could run a stock 19x9.5 rear up front (maybe with a small spacer) and 295 hoosier takeoffs from somebody like john berget tires (or your local road racers) at very reasonable prices.

Thanks for the info! I think the 19x9.5 with 295 hoosiers is where I will end up.

What sort of life should I expect? Ive read some about converting heat cycling to autocross runs, etc. but this is all new to me and I don't really know what Im doing. That would be my main concern about picking up a used set somewhere.

 

[boardkat]

Thanks for the info! I think the 19x9.5 with 295 hoosiers is where I will end up.

What sort of life should I expect? Ive read some about converting heat cycling to autocross runs, etc. but this is all new to me and I don't really know what Im doing. That would be my main concern about picking up a used set somewhere.

get some camber bolts like these:

http://www.amazon.com/Specialty-Pro...3QUI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1434569204&sr=8-1

... and you won't have to worry about cording the shoulders.
as for expected life, it depends what kind of use the takeoffs had before. i usually only buy 10min Q-session takeoffs (1 heat cycle). in my experience, they last almost as long as their sticker equivalents, and 1/4 the cost (usually $400-500 shipped). you'll never see me running them at a national event, but it makes the local/regional ones much less expensive and fun.

 

[phrenetiK]

it's barrel clearance, nothing a spacer can help with. the calipers *literally* won't fit inside the barrel on most wheels, because of the size of the caliper and the way the wheels were cast (resulting in a barrel taper). i'm speaking from experience test fitting all of my old S197 18" wheels (9-11" wide) with up to 30mm of spacers (resulting offsets in the range of +56 to +13), and there are many other confirmations across the board if you search. it's not from lack of trying, trust me

gotcha! Didn't realize they were quite that huge!

 

[TXskydiver]

get some camber bolts like these:

http://www.amazon.com/Specialty-Pro...3QUI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1434569204&sr=8-1

... and you won't have to worry about cording the shoulders.
as for expected life, it depends what kind of use the takeoffs had before. i usually only buy 10min Q-session takeoffs (1 heat cycle). in my experience, they last almost as long as their sticker equivalents, and 1/4 the cost (usually $400-500 shipped). you'll never see me running them at a national event, but it makes the local/regional ones much less expensive and fun.

Assuming you buy them brand new how many events (4 runs 50-65secs each) would you expect. I know its all relative but the general consensus of 200TW tires is AT LEAST a full year (12 events) and most likely closer to 18. Just wondered if this is a realistic expectation for R compounds as well.

Using the camber bolts, (entirely new to me) do you need to adjust them each time before the event and then back to 0 degrees after to avoid wearing out your road tires?

Sorry for the stupid questions but I appreciate the education!

 

[DickR]

Some info from an FS guy regarding tire life with around -2.0 degree negative camber in the front and -1.5 in the rear. I have 4700 street miles and 108 autocross runs on a set of RE-71R 275/35x19s F&R. Inside edge is minimal with this high percentage of autocross runs versus highway miles (no commute driving and minimal driving other than to/from events). The key for decent highway use wear is minimal toe. I run very little toe-in both front and rear.

Regarding using the oem 9.5 inch rear wheels in the front for ESP: Keep in mind that the backside spacing (i.e. the amount the mounting surface is recessed) is 186 mm for the oem 9.5 inch rears versus 172 mm for the oem 9 inch fronts. This is a combination of the greater offset (52.5 mm R, 45 mm F) and the extra 1/2 inch width.

With oem 9 inch front wheels, 2 mm slot for camber or similar with the ESP legal camber bolt (camber bolt isn't legal for FS unfortunately :-( ) the clearance with 275/35x19 tires is pretty tight already. You will need a "significant" spacer and maybe longer studs to use the oem 9.5's in the front.

Regarding running Street Touring at the National Level. Good luck because it will take a lot of it. Better off either staying in FS or going to ESP.

Edit to add: Ford has the offset and backside spacing info here: http://fordperformanceracingparts.com/parts/part_details.asp?PartKeyField=25186

Dick
FS 50

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