Rumormill: Next gen coyote will be twin turbo 4.0L.

[MikeyV]

4.0 is too small for a heavy car like a mustang
IMO the 5.0 is too small but whatever ,these cars need more arm IMO

da-fuq?

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[ForTehNguyen]

Mercedes uses a 4.0 V8TT in all of there 63 series AMG cars. Still has a nice grunty V8 sound but not as loud and rumbley as an NA. Those engines make 509 hp 479 ft# in the S trim

 

[Seceda91]

4.0 is too small for a heavy car like a mustang
IMO the 5.0 is too small but whatever ,these cars need more arm IMO

I know where you are coming from since the 5.0 badge with a Mustang is like green on grass.. sugar on cube.. orange on chicken. anything less just doesn't sound as badass..

It would be BITCHIN if it was a 5.0 supercharge but that probably won't happen (too much power, too much $).

A) 4.0L turbo = 500 Hp / 490 lb-torque
B) 5.0L DI, IM, deeper exhaust note? = 485 HP / 470 lb-torque

I would go B) since I'm not the one to be playing with warranty especially on turbo cars

 

[newkidnik]

Same guy who told me about the voodoo in 2011.

What else did he tell you?

My take is this:
-The only way the F/I TT V8 would work is if it's used in the F150 and the Mustang. We're on Gen 2 3.5 Ecoboost V6 with the 2017 F150, right? So is the play that the 2.7EB will remain, and the N/A 5.0 and the Gen 2 3.5EB will be replaced by an F/I V8? I'm not sure it makes sense from a cost perspective, but sure, it could happen. It needs to happen if we want to see an F/I V8 in a non-Shelby Mustang.
-F/I engines produce a lot of heat, have more potential things gone wrong, take up more space, and cost more to manufacture. An F/I V8 won't necessarily do anything for Ford other than help them meet Cafe for a nameplate (Mustang) that will likely be Cafe deficit for the next decade, if not forever. EB motors or not.
-For Mustang, an F/I V8 has to be price differentiated enough that the majority of buyers opt for the 4-cylinder Ecoboost, so the V8 is a smaller % of mix thus ensuring the average mpg for Mustang is largely buoyed by 4-cylinder buyers. For us, this means V8 power won't be as cheap/easy to attain.
-Final point of consideration, an N/A V8 is part of the Mustang story - Most Mustang buyers make emotional purchases as a result of the product's heritage, brand, narrative, intangibles; this isn't an appliance; it's a muscle car. What is a Mustang, or a muscle car, without an N/A V8? I think there are a couple of core buyer demographics, and messing with the V8 may alienate one of them. Will that dilute the concept and heritage to the point that it just doesn't make sense? Who knows.

I think the key is: Keep an eye on the F150 to see what happens with the Mustang. Also, there's a reason why we haven't seen the 3.5EB in Mustang. Don't forget that this powertrain is a LOT more expensive for Ford than staying with the Coyote (and V6). The tipping point is when will the cost savings of staying with powertrains that've essentially repaid their R&D be outweighed by Cafe fines.

 

[traxiii]

I could see them swapping in the 2.5L EB for the 2.3L as far as loosing the V8, I hope it never happens, but wouldn't be surprised if the next gen. doesn't have the 3.5L EB as at least an option for the GT.

 

[Stroked84]

Different manufacturer, but I was just looking at an Alpha Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio and it comes with a 2.9 liter BiTurbo V6 with 505 horsepower and 443 lb-ft of torque. Good for a 3.8s 0-60. I have no idea how much boost it's pushing, I'm assuming it's pretty high strung, but that's one insane little motor. Can't imagine giving it 2 more cylinders and an extra 1.1 liters. That's 696 horsepower (assuming same hp/L). I'm sure it would see an even larger bump in torque.

 

[Petroleum Jesus]

What else did he tell you?

My take is this:
-The only way the F/I TT V8 would work is if it's used in the F150 and the Mustang. We're on Gen 2 3.5 Ecoboost V6 with the 2017 F150, right? So is the play that the 2.7EB will remain, and the N/A 5.0 and the Gen 2 3.5EB will be replaced by an F/I V8? I'm not sure it makes sense from a cost perspective, but sure, it could happen. It needs to happen if we want to see an F/I V8 in a non-Shelby Mustang.

I think the key is: Keep an eye on the F150 to see what happens with the Mustang. Also, there's a reason why we haven't seen the 3.5EB in Mustang. Don't forget that this powertrain is a LOT more expensive for Ford than staying with the Coyote (and V6). The tipping point is when will the cost savings of staying with powertrains that've essentially repaid their R&D be outweighed by Cafe fines.

This is basically exactly what I was told. A twin turbo 4.0L V8, might cost more than a NA 5.0L V8, and it might cost more than a twin turbo 3.5L V6, and it may even cost more than a 6.2L V8. The thing is that it doesn't cost anything near as much as producing all three, and it will be replacing all three, all while sharing a many of it's components with the new 2.0L ecoboost, and in a smaller package than the Coyote or the 3.5EB.

 

[newkidnik]

This is basically exactly what I was told. A twin turbo 4.0L V8, might cost more than a NA 5.0L V8, and it might cost more than a twin turbo 3.5L V6, and it may even cost more than a 6.2L V8. The thing is that it doesn't cost anything near as much as producing all three, and it will be replacing all three, all while sharing a many of it's components with the new 2.0L ecoboost, and in a smaller package than the Coyote or the 3.5EB.

Oooo, got it. To make sure I understand correctly, they're saying the 4.0 would replace those three F150 motors? Would there still be two motors in the Mustang lineup such as a small displacement EB and this TT motor?

 

[Twin Turbo]

Would there still be two motors in the Mustang lineup such as a small displacement EB and this TT motor?

I'm guessing there would have to be......Mustang would have to become a very niche model if it only had a 4.0 TT V8.

Either keep the 2.3 Ecoboost......or, even better, perhaps introduce a 2.0 Ecoboost 4 and the 2.7 Ecoboost 6.....and top the range with a 4.0 Ecoboost 8. Turn up the wick on the 8 for any Shelby/Hi-Po models

 

[BmacIL]

Going much under 4.5L for a V8 gets into the area where friction/displacement gets problematic. Small engines with high cylinder count are typically done to increase the rev limit and decrease shaking forces on a FPC. They're generally poor for bsfc because the friction is still nearly as high as a larger V8, and you have to rev them higher to get the power you're looking for. Forced induction solves the torque problem, but the friction remains, and now you have a more difficult time accessing the base engine's potential because you're going to be limited by the compressor efficiency at high rpm. It can be done very well, see the AMG GT, but it's pricey. I don't see the Mustang with that type of engine anytime soon, particularly in the volumes it sells in.

Next gen S650:
2.3 EB
3.5 EB
5.0 NA V8 - similar to the F-150, this may not be the top dog, but will be offered because the market demands it

Later: Hybrid variant for hi-po edition

 

[EricSMG]

Going much under 4.5L for a V8 gets into the area where friction/displacement gets problematic. Small engines with high cylinder count are typically done to increase the rev limit and decrease shaking forces on a FPC. They're generally poor for bsfc because the friction is still nearly as high as a larger V8, and you have to rev them higher to get the torque you're looking for. Forced induction solves the torque problem, but the friction remains, and now you have a more difficult time accessing the base engine's potential because you're going to be limited by the compressor efficiency at high rpm. It can be done very well, see the AMG GT, but it's pricey. I don't see the Mustang with that type of engine anytime soon, particularly in the volumes it sells in.

Interesting. Isn't there some significance to .5L per cylinder?

 

[mustang_guy]

Going much under 4.5L for a V8 gets into the area where friction/displacement gets problematic. Small engines with high cylinder count are typically done to increase the rev limit and decrease shaking forces on a FPC. They're generally poor for bsfc because the friction is still nearly as high as a larger V8, and you have to rev them higher to get the torque you're looking for. Forced induction solves the torque problem, but the friction remains, and now you have a more difficult time accessing the base engine's potential because you're going to be limited by the compressor efficiency at high rpm. It can be done very well, see the AMG GT, but it's pricey. I don't see the Mustang with that type of engine anytime soon, particularly in the volumes it sells in.

Next gen S650:
2.3 EB
3.5 EB
5.0 NA V8 - similar to the F-150, this may not be the top dog, but will be offered because the market demands it

Later: Hybrid variant for hi-po edition

A 3.5 eb from the f150 would be a awesome option.

 

[Cardude99]

I can't see ford making the v8 the middle engine and the v6 the top dog. 4L TT makes a lot of sense along with a 2.7 V6 TT and a 2.0 4TT.

Prices will likely go up but if that gets me a TT v8 nearing 500hp I can live with that.

 

[Hack]

Going much under 4.5L for a V8 gets into the area where friction/displacement gets problematic.

WUT??

Maybe you want to talk to some people from Ferrari who made MANY V12s that were smaller than 4.5L. There's no problem with friction, especially with modern low tension rings.

 

[Twin Turbo]

A 3.5 eb from the f150 would be a awesome option.

Indeed it would. I'd just ask that Ford work as hard on making it sound as awesome as they did the Voodoo. I'm not usually a fan of how flat plane crank V8s sound (particularly in front engined applications) but Ford managed to make Voodoo sound part European exotic, part traditional American V8.

If they can make the 3.5 sounds like it's got some serious balls, then

Sound plays an incredible part of why I love cars.......and the traditional American V8 is the best sound there is, so I'll always favour an 8.

The spy videos from a few months back (of the rumoured white Mach 1 prototype - it had the quad exhaust) goes to show that, even from the factory, Ford are intent on making their cars sound superb. With these active exhausts, you can get the best of both worlds.

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