return-less fuel systems thoughts and ideas

[DougS550]

That does make sense. I suppose wiring into the factory connector is for priming with key on and the fuel level. I ordered my kit last November and my bucket is steel.

For my use case, I have zero concerns running the pumps full time. I'm confident this setup will support plenty of power.

Hi.
- What size pumps did you get with your Radium?
- When you installed the fuel pump hat assembly, Did you cut your factory connector off and splice the fuel pump connector power wires with terminals and connect them to the radium hat terminals?
So you haven't see any downside to running the secondary fuel pump at full power?
Thanks

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[HKusp]

The bucket has been steel since the beginning, is your kit very new? My friend recently bought one that was steel as well. I have not seen a radium plastic bucket yet.

I bought my kit 8/2023.

 

[DougS550]

What is this used for?

 

[Midwestracer]

boost reference

 

[DougS550]

boost reference

Where exactly did you run the vacuum line to for this reference?

 

[J17GT]

Hi.
- What size pumps did you get with your Radium?
- When you installed the fuel pump hat assembly, Did you cut your factory connector off and splice the fuel pump connector power wires with terminals and connect them to the radium hat terminals?
So you haven't see any downside to running the secondary fuel pump at full power?
Thanks

I went with Ti274 pumps.

Honestly, the wiring was probably the easiest part of the job. I paid extra to have the pumps already wired to the Radium hat. Although, looking at the Radium instructions, it did not look all that bad. You do have to move over the fuel level sender and cut the factory connector off of that. The kit comes with a new connector that you use to plug into a connector coming out of the Radium bucket/hat. You never cut the main wiring harness of the car.

-You connect two positive wires to the hat
-Two grounds wires to the hat that go to seat belt anchor bolt
-Two wires coming from the supplied harness to the fuel level sender terminals on the hat
-plug provided harness into factory wiring harness with plug and play connector
-Run the two main positive wires through the car to two positive existing terminals at the battery junction box under the hood.

That’s all there is to it. Had zero issues with wiring. Doing the PTFE fittings and routing all the fuel hose was far more time consuming. Just getting my new fuel injectors in with that monster whipple lid took a bit of effort.

Tip: ask your tuner for a fuel drain tune. We hooked up a battery charger and just ran the pumps full time with just the key on to check all hoses and fittings for leaks. Much nicer that way than with the car running.

I’m not concerned about running the pumps full time as it’s rare I drive this car more than an hour at a time. It is not my daily driver and I do not road trip it anywhere. My F150 is way more comfortable for that.

 

[cbrtrx]

I bought my kit 8/2023.

That looks like the steel bucket they always used.

Plastic that thin would crack very easily with those screws.

 

[Angrey]

The Radium bucket is metal.

There is no Radium "system." It's simply a fuel bucket with a hanger inside. It acts like a mini-surge tank.

How you wire up and control the pumps is up to you or whatever system you employ.

It even has the flexibility to eliminate the on hat regulator and go traditional (which is what I did).

The biggest advantages of the Radium bucket are a slight improvement over the stock bucket in terms of surge volume and pre-installed electrical posts so you don't have to drill or seal or fabricate your own through hat connections. This is huge for those of us who wanted to run brushless pumps.

It would be a curious experiment/study to see if the return style with the regulator at the hat has less, more or the same lag time as a return less setup. In either case, in order for the system to supply more fuel to the rails, there's a distance between the pumps and the rail that must be tuned in, either preloading the pumps (to run harder in anticipation) or smoothing out the fuel delivery through adjustments to the injection pulse based on pressure/duration.

There are a couple of advantages to return side dumping back into the bucket. First, no return line is needed. Second, it heats the fuel less (than sending it to the front to a hot engine bay and back).

But there are also a couple of drawbacks. To get an accurate boost reference that far away, you're going to have to run a large(r) vacuum line all the way back there without kinking or bending it. And as I wrote earlier, you'll still have to run the pumps slightly over-tasked to account for the sudden spikes in demand at the rails and it's ability to ramp up output and send more fuel to get to the rails.

 

[cbrtrx]

The Radium bucket is metal.

There is no Radium "system." It's simply a fuel bucket with a hanger inside. It acts like a mini-surge tank.

How you wire up and control the pumps is up to you or whatever system you employ.

It even has the flexibility to eliminate the on hat regulator and go traditional (which is what I did).

The biggest advantages of the Radium bucket are a slight improvement over the stock bucket in terms of surge volume and pre-installed electrical posts so you don't have to drill or seal or fabricate your own through hat connections. This is huge for those of us who wanted to run brushless pumps.

It would be a curious experiment/study to see if the return style with the regulator at the hat has less, more or the same lag time as a return less setup. In either case, in order for the system to supply more fuel to the rails, there's a distance between the pumps and the rail that must be tuned in, either preloading the pumps (to run harder in anticipation) or smoothing out the fuel delivery through adjustments to the injection pulse based on pressure/duration.

There are a couple of advantages to return side dumping back into the bucket. First, no return line is needed. Second, it heats the fuel less (than sending it to the front to a hot engine bay and back).

But there are also a couple of drawbacks. To get an accurate boost reference that far away, you're going to have to run a large(r) vacuum line all the way back there without kinking or bending it. And as I wrote earlier, you'll still have to run the pumps slightly over-tasked to account for the sudden spikes in demand at the rails and it's ability to ramp up output and send more fuel to get to the rails.

On the gen 3 cars with DI and proper calibration there is no surge spike worries. I also agree the length of line for vacuum reference is not optimal but again it works just fine. I've found many things on paper translate differently when put into practice.

 

[DougS550]

I went with Ti274 pumps.

Honestly, the wiring was probably the easiest part of the job. I paid extra to have the pumps already wired to the Radium hat. Although, looking at the Radium instructions, it did not look all that bad. You do have to move over the fuel level sender and cut the factory connector off of that. The kit comes with a new connector that you use to plug into a connector coming out of the Radium bucket/hat. You never cut the main wiring harness of the car.

-You connect two positive wires to the hat
-Two grounds wires to the hat that go to seat belt anchor bolt
-Two wires coming from the supplied harness to the fuel level sender terminals on the hat
-plug provided harness into factory wiring harness with plug and play connector
-Run the two main positive wires through the car to two positive existing terminals at the battery junction box under the hood.

That’s all there is to it. Had zero issues with wiring. Doing the PTFE fittings and routing all the fuel hose was far more time consuming. Just getting my new fuel injectors in with that monster whipple lid took a bit of effort.

Tip: ask your tuner for a fuel drain tune. We hooked up a battery charger and just ran the pumps full time with just the key on to check all hoses and fittings for leaks. Much nicer that way than with the car running.

I’m not concerned about running the pumps full time as it’s rare I drive this car more than an hour at a time. It is not my daily driver and I do not road trip it anywhere. My F150 is way more comfortable for that.

I never heard of fuel Drain tune? What does it do?
- I just talked with Radium and they said using my OEM fuel feed line would be fine for 850whp. - What fuel line did you have to run?
- Radium also said they do not assemble their assembly with the pumps installed.

 

[cbrtrx]

I never heard of fuel Drain tune? What does it do?
- I just talked with Radium and they said using my OEM fuel feed line would be fine for 850whp. - What fuel line did you have to run?
- Radium also said they do not assemble their assembly with the pumps installed.

While the radium setup can work with the stock feed line the issue is not having a secondary filter, the pump sock filters alone are not enough filtration for the fuel injectors.

 

[Angrey]

On the gen 3 cars with DI and proper calibration there is no surge spike worries. I also agree the length of line for vacuum reference is not optimal but again it works just fine. I've found many things on paper translate differently when put into practice.

I get pressure drop just from the length of trying to measure boost to my gauge at the dash. I can't imagine it gets better going another 3-4 feet rearward. Like I said, you could end up using a larger line, given that you don't have to contend with the firewall. In any case, the tune accounts for any discrepancies between pressure delta at the point of injection.

And not all of us are on DI. But yeah, anything can be tuned out. DI picks up a lot of the load so it's not as pronounced of an issue I'm sure.

 

[DougS550]

While the radium setup can work with the stock feed line the issue is not having a secondary filter, the pump sock filters alone are not enough filtration for the fuel injectors.

That's right, a fuel filter. So I guess you run a -8 feed line and put a inline filter under the car on that line?

 

[cbrtrx]

That's right, a fuel filter. So I guess you run a -8 feed line and put a inline filter under the car on that line?

Yes and a microglass filter is recommended.

 

[J17GT]

I never heard of fuel Drain tune? What does it do?
- I just talked with Radium and they said using my OEM fuel feed line would be fine for 850whp. - What fuel line did you have to run?
- Radium also said they do not assemble their assembly with the pumps installed.

The fuel drain tune runs the pumps full time with the key on, engine not running. Normally the pumps would just prime and then shutoff. This keeps them running full time.

I purchased my entire Arcane fuel system from Juggernaut performance. They are the ones that assembled and wired my pumps to the hat. They charge extra to do that. As I mentioned earlier, the wiring harness that comes with the kit is outstanding. I had no issues with the PTFE hose and fittings provided with the kit either.

Read up on those kits here: https://arcanep2.com/fuel-systems

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