Replaced Voodoo Engine

[Tflong24]

Define way less then.

Over 6,000 units MY16.

Lets say comparable for MY17. 12,0000 units.

MY18 was supposed to be the final run year with a reduction of 40%...

Well the GT350 is going right into 19MY with upgrades.

But lets say only 3600 where built for MY18. Still over 15,500 and that's still much less than 0.5%.

I am not saying there isn't a problem, just trying to understand the scale, and volume is important for that.

I was saying the 41 reported failures are not in direct relation to the full number of cars produced. The number of failures are linked to the members of this and some other forums. Way fewer than 17k cars.

 

[stanglife]

I was saying the 41 reported failures are not in direct relation to the full number of cars produced. The number of failures are linked to the members of this and some other forums. Way fewer than 17k cars.

That - and it’s well accepted that more people go online and leave reviews about negative product experiences than they do positive ones.

I said it before - focusing on the things that reveal common factors in failures (build dates, builders) seems much more productive and accurate.

 

[car crazy]

Using Corvette forum numbers, lets say 6% of all GT350 owners are on this forum. We know 41 failures were reported.

6% of the total 17,000 GT350 = 1,020 GT350 represented on this board.

41 failures out of 1,020 GT350 = 4.02% failure rate.


I hope the above is not accurate.

 

[300blackout]

That - and it’s well accepted that more people go online and leave reviews about negative product experiences than they do positive ones.

I said it before - focusing on the things that reveal common factors in failures (build dates, builders) seems much more productive and accurate.

I've already assumed that those that do not report any issues are perfectly happy with their cars, even then to have over 40 people with just the same engine problems out of such a small sample is alarming to say the list. I'm really hoping Ford has addressed this issue in later 2018 and 2019 builds which is why I'm waiting.

I'm already taking a gamble, I know...I know. Time will tell if I will regret my decision. If I do, it will be my first and last Ford.

 

[jvandy50]

Using Corvette forum numbers, lets say 6% of all GT350 owners are on this forum. We know 41 failures were reported.

6% of the total 17,000 GT350 = 1,020 GT350 represented on this board.

41 failures out of 1,020 GT350 = 4.02% failure rate.


I hope the above is not accurate.

Except there’s only 300ish here, not 1020, but unsure how many other forums the data is coming from.

I have noticed a few single post member failures, which do skew the numbers, but if we pay attention many are from folks that’ve been here awhile.

 

[stanglife]

I've already assumed that those that do not report any issues are perfectly happy when their cars, even then to have over 40 people with just the same engine problems out of such a small sample is alarming to say the last. I'm really hoping Ford has addressed this issue in later 2018 and 2019 builds which is why I'm waiting.

I'm already taking a gamble, I know...I know. Time will tell if I will regret my decision. If I do, it will be my first and last Ford.

You seem like an intelligent guy, to be putting all of this together. Do you agree with the scenario that I described? - that you hear far more from people who have problems with their cars than you do from people who don’t? I suggest that your sample is skewed...skewed to the point where it could be the exact opposite (proof that a much lower percentage failure rate) of your postulation.

 

[stanglife]

Fixed - previous post quotes were jacked up making it look like I was talking to myself...which HAS been known to happen!

 

[17RubyShelbyGT350]

Not Likely

Using Corvette forum numbers, lets say 6% of all GT350 owners are on this forum. We know 41 failures were reported.

6% of the total 17,000 GT350 = 1,020 GT350 represented on this board.

41 failures out of 1,020 GT350 = 4.02% failure rate.


I hope the above is not accurate.

My discussion re the Corvette Forum membership was meant to illustrate that only a relatively small number of owners have membership in these special interest forums. It is extremely tempting to take what real numbers we have and extrapolate the hell out of them. Human nature, actually - we want to say we have an understanding of the depth of failures. So we pull out of the air, “let’s multiply this number by 800 percent, or speculate on ratios of forum membership (which for the 6G Shelby population is a little over 300 members plus unknown members of other Shelby centric forum populations) and formulate a percentage which might apply to 17,000 cars.

Plainly put, we don’t have enough data to do that. I was always careful to say that during my short term frequency count exercise. Those that do that as well as those who also blindly assert “all is well” - both groups are kind of whistling by the graveyard IMHO.

I think most reasonable people would agree (if only privately) that the data collected to-date is somewhat disconcerting and would also understand that not enough is known to do any statistically relevant extrapolations against 17,000 cars out there. Unless somehow forced to, Ford will never tell us the truth. Continuing to collect data may provide more anecdotal information and we know Ford will not produce any more FPC motors once this GT350 run ends in ‘19 and they are not using FPC motors in their race series mustangs, not for a while now. More anecdotal information.

I really like that Ford went out on a limb to develop the FPC. I also wish they they had put some more R&D and real world test time before putting it into production, and maybe applied a little more lean Signa 6 process to production.

Damn shame, actually...

 

[300blackout]

You seem like an intelligent guy, to be putting all of this together. Do you agree with the scenario that I described? - that you hear far more from people who have problems with their cars than you do from people who don’t? I suggest that your sample is skewed...skewed to the point where it could be the exact opposite (proof that a much lower percentage failure rate) of your postulation.

Absolutely agree that those that have problems make more noise. That's why I already assume the ones that are quiet are happy, and the ones that do complaint only get one entry in my spreadsheet.

How many other cars in recent memory are blowing up engines at this rate within months or 1-2 years of ownership?

The E63 had the head stud issues, P and the IMS, GTR and the driveshaft, C7 and overheating issues. Most of these issues have been identified and solutions available to rectify. So why can't we add the gt350 with blowing up engines? We don't even know the cause of these issues, let alone come close to finding a solution.

I still really want to try my shot at owning one...hoping, just hoping that Ford quietly made improvements since then.

 

[stanglife]

Absolutely agree that those that have problems make more noise. That's why I already assume the ones that are quiet are happy, and the ones that do complaint only get one entry in my spreadsheet.

How many other cars in recent memory are blowing up engines at this rate within months or 1-2 years of ownership?

The E63 had the head stud issues, P and the IMS, GTR and the driveshaft, C7 and overheating issues. Most of these issues have been identified and solutions available to rectify. So why can't we add the gt350 with blowing up engines? We don't even know the cause of these issues, let alone come close to finding a solution.

I still really want to try my shot at owning one...hoping, just hoping that Ford quietly made improvements since then.

You don't get it, at all. You have a fixed number of users on the forum. Say it's 300. Out of those users, a percentage of them are:

1 - Drawn here to begin with ONLY to complain about an engine failure.

2 - You've got people who show up to talk about their engine failure but then also mention other cars that aren't on the forum and aren't even verifiable.

3 - Are you counting 1 owner with 2 failures as 2 failures? IMO, more likely that a mistake was made by the servicing dealership on the 2nd engine.

4 - Although technically an engineering flaw (IMO) - can you account for people who ran the car low on oil?

5 - Can you determine if a missed shift caused any of the failures?

6 - Any of the failed engines have modifications?

Just too many variables.

Like I said, you seem smart - I don't see how you think this can be accurate. I'm certainly not saying that people are making anything up - I just realize (and I thought you did, too!) that you can NOT get an accurate or even close to accurate failure rate from the skewed data that is (or is not) available here.

 

[stanglife]

It is a damn shame. Especially looking back on just how excited we all were. All the hype, teases, the waiting, dodging the ADM dealers, ordering, more waiting etc. When they stopped racing the FPC that just took the wind out of my sails.

Again - you are speaking for everyone? C'mon. There are certainly more excited owners than otherwise. YOU are not everyone.

When they stopped racing the FPC, your driving experience was ruined?

 

[cosmo]

You don't get it, at all. You have a fixed number of users on the forum. Say it's 300. Out of those users, a percentage of them are:

1 - Drawn here to begin with ONLY to complain about an engine failure.

2 - You've got people who show up to talk about their engine failure but then also mention other cars that aren't on the forum and aren't even verifiable.

3 - Are you counting 1 owner with 2 failures as 2 failures? IMO, more likely that a mistake was made by the servicing dealership on the 2nd engine.

Like I said, you seem smart - I don't see how you think this can be accurate. I'm certainly not saying that people are making anything up - I just realize (and I thought you did, too!) that you can NOT get an accurate or even close to accurate failure rate from the skewed data that is (or is not) available here. In addition to the

How many of these people are 1 posters? Just to post about their failure? Perhaps 5? It seems the vast majority were active users, or at least had signed up way before their vehicle failed and posted occasionally.

 

[stanglife]

Maybe not 1 posters but the initial draw would have been to complain about a failure. I don't have the number - it's impossible to know. I'm just aware that for every product that gets reviewed - more people seek out avenues to complain than do to compliment.

 

[stanglife]

It is a damn shame. Especially looking back on just how excited we all were. All the hype, teases, the waiting, dodging the ADM dealers, ordering, more waiting etc. When they stopped racing the FPC that just took the wind out of my sails.

Randy - a quick look back and I see you posting positively about your 17. Especially when you offer to sell it. You even mention how the Porsche GT3 thing was so much worse. Now, somehow, after you sell yours, the GT350 becomes the worse car you've ever owned and you know that everyone agrees with you? I'm sorry man, but this is sellers confirmation at its finest.

I had an early '16 that was a buy back. My '17 has been fine.

I think many are finding out these engines are very robust and some will sip oil and others will drink a lot depending on driving style mileage etc. I also think there will always be a small percentage of failures due to manufacturing but feel that number is really very low. I also think many owners are more aware of the fact they need to pull the dipstick out and actually check there oil at least once a month on this vehicle as it is part of ownership.

Not anything near what the 991.1 GT3's went through.

You seem to like the car when you offer it for sale - and it looks damn good in the pictures, IMO:
https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2222472&postcount=42

 

[cosmo]

Maybe not 1 posters but the initial draw would have been to complain about a failure. I don't have the number - it's impossible to know. I'm just aware that for every product that gets reviewed - more people seek out avenues to complain than do to compliment.

It's definitely not impossible to know, as the list of users is documented and can be checked.

You are making a claim that the engine failures are due to new posters coming to complain, but when I look over the list I see many users who have been active members for a long time.

People definitely like to make a racket if something of their fails, however in this case I don't believe it's entirely the case. There is definitely some smoke here inidicating a fire, but we just don't know how large of a fire it is yet.