Rear end traction question. EcoBoost

[Double]

Especially when turning from a stop you'll have a greater chance of losing the back end, the weight of the car is pushing towards the outside already add some extra power to the wheels and there is a good chance you'll lose some traction. And this mostly happens at lower speeds and in first gear. Higher gears and higher speeds this will be less of an issue.

Also gotta be aware of manhole covers, train tracks etc etc anything that isn't asphalt that's on the road will greatly reduce your traction.

We used to have an old Volvo RWD CVT but with only 70 hp orso. But the fact it was light weight and had skinny tires you had to really ease it around a corner from a dead stop when slightly wet.

Think it's mostly the physics at play when turning a RWD vehicle from a dead stop that it has a greater chance of losing friction.

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[Chameleon]

Drive it like a grandma?

 

[Lord Thunder]

So, I'm about 7k miles into my 15' Ecoboost premium.
When I hit the throttle when turning onto streets from a stop sign. The back end just kind of starts to get loose.

It's this exact behavior that has me a little concerned about testing the cars performance more.

I still have the stock tires on the car. Is it because of these?

The stock Pirelli summer tires are crap. I intend to replace them with Michelin Pilot Super Sports in spring. (When it's time to take my Pilot Alpin's off). I rinsed down my car in the middle of summer, I drove off and the traction control light whas flashing at me for almost a whole block. Just because the tires had gotten wet from the rinse (on dry pavement!)

... trying to go around a corner in 1st you need a gentle foot or massive rear tires as soon at you hit 2500 rpm.

^ This.

I'm hours from picking up my new 2016 GT here in the UK. It's cold and very wet, with flooded roads so after all these threads about the Mustang's ability to go easily sideways and a year's wait since placing my deposit, I'm approaching the car with trepidation.

Too easy to dial in the power in the auto, perhaps?

I picked up my car in the pouring rain. I haven't had a RWD car before (Turbo? Yes. RWD? No.) I was also a bit anxious, but I had no problems at all. It's just a matter of go easy on the gas in corners. Just don't let yourself get hit by boost mid-corner.

 

[Audioninja]

I have owned alot of turbo RWD cars, you never want the front wheels turned when boost hits and the torque goes through the roof. The problem on the EB is that boost hits very early and very hard.

Once you are moving and keeping it above 3k on the tach in 3rd gear or higher it's a pu$$ycat and I love hitting a winding road with it. But trying to go around a corner in 1st you need a gentle foot or massive rear tires as soon at you hit 2500 rpm, Remember your torque multiplication is 14 times in first gear on a base and 15 times on a PP. that's around 4346 ft/bs trying to accelerate a tire that is trying to hold the lateral force of a 3400 lb car.

Brilliant. thank you for the science part of it. I will be more gentle then.

 

[SBLee29]

Yeah [MENTION=12143]Audioninja[/MENTION], I have have the V6 and I experience this even when it's dry out. This is my first RWD car so it took me little to get use to, but yeah I'm sure it's just the torque.

 

[paul123]

I have owned alot of turbo RWD cars, you never want the front wheels turned when boost hits and the torque goes through the roof. The problem on the EB is that boost hits very early and very hard.

Once you are moving and keeping it above 3k on the tach in 3rd gear or higher it's a pu$$ycat and I love hitting a winding road with it. But trying to go around a corner in 1st you need a gentle foot or massive rear tires as soon at you hit 2500 rpm ...

can this be modified with an engine tune? I am not recommending that, just curious. The GT is docile until around 3500-4000 RPM

 

[GTP]

Just never lift. Problem solved.

Or at least lift the throttle gradually.

And this mostly happens at lower speeds and in first gear. Higher gears and higher speeds this will be less of an issue.

And this ^.

There is a technique called "steer with the throttle", meaning it is better to tighten up the turn by lifting the throttle a little. This works for medium and high speed turns. Unfortunately, when gassing it from a stop sign and turning, the car gets sideways too quick to use this technique, because lifting only makes it worse. Better to experiment with how much throttle spins the tires a little, but not making the back end step out real far. Even so, you will not want traffic around, curbs nearby, etc.

 

[paul123]

http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19465

torque curves on the EB & V8 are fairly similar out to 3000-3500 RPM

theoretically you could look at the torque curves and figure out what RPM is required to break traction when turning off of a stop sign, and then just keep RPM's below that when taking other turns. That might be 200 lb ft on dry payment, and 100 lb ft on web pavement. I just made up those numbers.

I am not sure how HP factors into this

 

[SubZombie]

If you're still on the stock summer tires, it is for sure the issue.

I'm on DWS06's now but with the Pzeros if the tires weren't really warmed up or on hot pavement (like 90+ degrees in direct sunlight) my rear end would skip a bit pulling out in a turn under very little throttle. Has never happened since I changed tires.

 

[Rogues Gambit]

RWD with an open diff is a very different animal than RWD with LSD / Torsen

this is an extreme example but the idea still holds. I am sure this guy had first class suspension and tires:


662HP Ford Shelby Mustang GT500 SVT Burnout fail!

I thought it was a crash video. I do that from time to time, only for fun when the coast is clear leaving my driveway

Steeda bits, Springs and Shocks will help off the line though, pretty sure those alone can drop a few milliseconds off your time, if not a full second

 

[Rogues Gambit]

If you're still on the stock summer tires, it is for sure the issue.

I'm on DWS06's now but with the Pzeros if the tires weren't really warmed up or on hot pavement (like 90+ degrees in direct sunlight) my rear end would skip a bit pulling out in a turn under very little throttle. Has never happened since I changed tires.

Modifying a line from a classic band, Pirelli's = Shit

 

[Road Dog]

Sounds like some wider/better tires and more cornering practice are the ticket for the OP. So many folks today have never driven a RWD car and even more have never driven a 3800b car with 300+ rwHP. It takes practice to handle it in all the conditions you find yourself in on a daily basis. I drove an '86 Corvette for a few years and even with the wide treat tires it came with I found myself swinging the rear end out several times before I mastered the throttle. After that the car was a real pleasure to drive.

 

[CrazedAntelope]

Fellow EB PP here. I have pretty much no confidence in the wet/damp and accelerating around slow speed corners (my P Zeros have 15K miles on them). I say just be as progressive as you can with the throttle.

In the dry, I'm always running TC off and throttle mode in S+. Around medium speed highway onramps, you can feed the throttle progressively and feel the car just begin to rotate, on the cusp of breaking traction. This will give you a better idea of the limits.

As far as gaining more confidence, I'm moving towards items that will give you better feel of the back end. If you can feel the back end better, you can know what's going on and you'll be more confident. Items I plan on purchasing to help improve feel and gain confidence (UNTESTED):
1. 18" wheel and tire package- I hear tires lose traction more progressively with a larger sidewall
2. BMR CB005 (cradle bushing)- Reduces deflection in the subframe, making the rear end more predictable
3. RCLA and toe bearing - removes rubber deflection, less suspension geometry changes.
4. Vertical Links & Toe Rods

Along with springs, shocks, and swaybars...

 

[doulos4jc]

The new mustang is one of the most composed, confidence inspiring RWD cars I have ever driven. When the rear end gets a little loose it's as easy as getting off the throttle to bring things back in line.

 

[croyde]

I picked up my new V8 at lunchtime. It's wet, cold and even flooded around here and the country roads are tiny and strewn with mud, leaves and bits of branches.

Yep! it looks like winter has arrived here in the UK. Currently about 3 degrees centigrade.

I have had a most enjoyable afternoon and evening just hooning around the Surrey Hills and even though I'm not going slow, the tyres have not given me one slip.......yet.

You can feel that if you booted it mid corner or on a roundabout, it will go but I guess it's years of bikes and other RWD cars that has taught me to go easy and take it smooth.

Once on a straight bit, that roar of the engine and the feel of being pushed back in your seat. This car is fucking awesome

I may of said it earlier but maybe the auto makes it too easy to pile on the power. I went for manual. Autos still not that popular over here.

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