Race engine build?

[gregsdart]

As a dragracer the wheels (brain) are often turning on how to go faster, and even though I have a Dodge Dart, I wouldn't mind a 5.0 motor in there!
Advantages-
Light weight
Extreme strength
Very high up per cubic inch capability
Very good FACTORY valvetrain
Unbreakable crankshaft

The plan-
10,000 rpm if possible
15/1 compression
Methanol fuel
Mechanical fuel injection
Forged rods and pistons
Dry sump oil system
12 inch running vacuum in motor
Ported heads
Transmision-
8500 to 8800 stall speed target, provided that can be reached with current race converter cores.
Electronically shifted A10 to allow choice of gear ratios and number of gears used.
Power target -
Max torque 8200 rpm
Max hp 900+ at 9600 rpm
Ok gearheads, your ideas of how to do this or what else you would do? Keep it normally aspirated.
Part of the appeal of this motor is the possibility of very high hp levels using mostly stock parts or parts from ford.

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[gregsdart]

For me personally I would start with rods and pistons, cams and valvetrain improvements for more rpm. Fuel injection would be mechanical since not a lot of finesse is needed at 8 to 9 thousand rpm! I could adapt a Ford racing intake manifold to work with the injection.
Trans would be the most economical unit I could use and get the high stall speed (7000+) needed to make this deal work. Trans type and selection would require some thought to come up with something that would have available converters and gear ratios to best do the job. Probably could get by with three or four gears due to the high stall. My budget might allow a motor of 800 normally aspirated up. Combine that with the weight reduction of 200+ pounds bringing the car and driver down to 2820, it might run 8.80s or better. That would equal or improve current performance.

 

[Andy13186]

lmao i read the plan and couldnt comprehend that being possible in any way, but I dont know much. good luck.

Highest revving 5.0 ive ever heard of is the NA moon motor coyote and I think it makes ~600 rwhp and revs to like 8600 maybe

 

[18 Smoke]

lmao i read the plan and couldnt comprehend that being possible in any way, but I dont know much. good luck.

Highest revving 5.0 ive ever heard of is the NA moon motor coyote and I think it makes ~600 rwhp and revs to like 8600 maybe

 

[gregsdart]

• Ever built a 900 hp motor? I have, came up with the plan back in 2003 and have raced it since. 4.15 stroke 4.500 bore. I shift it at 7500 rpm. A 5.0 coyote motor wouldn't see that level of piston speed and stress till 9000+ rpm, and my motor is not pushing the limits by a fair amount.
• LMAO? I hope some day you come out of your self created limitations and think of things like HOW DO WE DO WHAT OTHERS THINK IMPOSIBLE? Just to give you an idea of what can make things happen - better lash adjusters with more limited range for higher rpm. Titanium valves. Ti valves are 40 percent lighter, and they alone would ad 1500+ rpm to the rev range. That right there moves the rev range up over 9750, maybe 10,000 rpm. Billet cam followers. MUCH stronger than a production line part. Premium rods and pistons that can handle that rpm are used in NHRA pro stock class and they run a stroke very close and have a 4.600 bore piston!!!!! 15.5 to 1 compression. Instant 5 t
• 
  
• 4 to 5 percent power boost. Methanol. The fuel used in INDY cars. Another 4 to 5 percent power boost. Cams designed to make max power above 9000 rpm? They won't idle worth a damn below 4000 rpm but who cares? From start to finish a drag motor would never be below 8000 rpm! Limited or locked cams. Not much need for cam phasers when you have an extremely narrow rpm range.
• And the first order of business is to start studying motors that run like what you want to build. What is in an INDY motor? A high reving motorcycle engine? NEVER reinvent the wheel! You build on the efforts and knowledge others are willing to share. And there are some VERY intelegent and HIGHLY SUCCESSFULL people in the racing world just looking for someone they can help!
• Time for breakfast. School is out for today.

 

[Rjames18]

You'll be the first to do that much of an extent on a NA motor.
Best of luck!
Coyote engine is still new in that retrospect comparing to a SBC.
MMR will probably be your best company to contact.
You could just add a set of twin for a lot less money. Unless there is a specific class you're trying to stay in the rules with.

Also the crank is not unbreakable. I've seen multiple with cracks in them or from the snout snapping.

 

[Tickitty Tock]

Somebody has deep pockets

 

[gregsdart]

You'll be the first to do that much of an extent on a NA motor.
Best of luck!
Coyote engine is still new in that retrospect comparing to a SBC.
MMR will probably be your best company to contact.
You could just add a set of twin for a lot less money. Unless there is a specific class you're trying to stay in the rules with.

Also the crank is not unbreakable. I've seen multiple with cracks in them or from the snout snapping.

I am assuming a number of those cracked cranks were used in a belt driven supercharger app?
The main reason for the post was to have some fun and speculate a little bit. In my case a project motor of this sort would have a much more limited busget than an all out no holds bared build. Things like Ti valves would not fit the budget in my case. I could probably go with better pistons and rods, cams, intake manifold and build my own injection system from my old setup i currently have. That and a set of home built headers plus some type of ignition controler and locked cams would be in the works. If budget allowed, i could opt for electronic fuel injection which would be much easier on the motor. Methanol can be a real PITA sometimes, but it makes great power and is cheap! My original thought of using mechanical injection would need a lot of fuel system maintenance because of the corrosive nature of methanol.
So my guess would be i could get maybe 700 hp out of what i could afford to do. Lots of compression, alky fuel, hi revs like maybe 8800 or better, as a guess. The cams could be designed to work best above 7000 rpm for best power. I would shoot for a shift point of say 8800 and a converter that would flash to 7400 and fall back on each shift to 7600. My 528 has a 6200 stall and shifts at 7400, falls back to 6200 on the data recorder . most well sorted out automatic trans drag cars have similar rpm patterns. Lots of stall speed, usually well above torque peak, narrow rpm change from gear to gear.

 

[gregsdart]

Somebody has deep pockets

not so deep here. My limit would be maybe 18000? Take away the enitial cost of a core engine and that really cuts into what i could do. Now hand a pro 40 gs and a good core, and you would see a SERIOUS build, with stuff like sheetmetal intake manifold, stainless long tube custom headers, heads fully ported for the intended use and cams plus valvetrain that would run in the stratusphere! I have no clue what max rpm might be with the best heads and valvetrain, but speculate it could be as hi as 11,000 rpm or more! If i can spin a motor designed in 1957 to over 7600 to 8000, imagine what a pro could do starting with an engine that has a factory redline (gt350 motor) of 8200!

 

[Strokerswild]

The mechanical injection is what stands out to me as the one item that might be a pisser to implement....but if you can fabricate, it could be done.

 

[Rjames18]

Gotta get a standalone as well.
I've seen a few boosted cars that locked out the cams. Each of them said they should've left it. Reasons above my head unfortunately.

The cracked cranks were in 1300-1500whp coyotes. Not belt driven blower cars.

Swap over to nitro if you want nasty power. Finding a way to run off just that.. good luck!

 

[gregsdart]

The mechanical injection is what stands out to me as the one item that might be a pisser to implement....but if you can fabricate, it could be done.

Since in my case it would be in a race chassis with a bunch of room, not too tuff. A bracket for the pump, some form of adapter i can tap for 1/8th pipe for the nozzles, and adapt a mechanical throttle body big enough to flow 2000 cfm plus a mount and linkage for the metering valve. I would definately hope i could budget for an electronic system for not much more. It probably wouldn't make more power but maintenance of the fuel system would be a ton easier! This stuff is fun to speculate about. Could you imagine what people would think if you had a flat plane crank motor running 9 grand in a 65 dodge dart

 

[Roush05]

I wish I knew as much about working on motors as you guys do. Always been something I've wanted to do and I keep dancing around it with FI, headers, intake manifold, etc. But never been inside a motor.

 

[Tickitty Tock]

I wish I knew as much about working on motors as you guys do. Always been something I've wanted to do and I keep dancing around it with FI, headers, intake manifold, etc. But never been inside a motor.

But Have you ever been inside a woman? Sorry I had to

 

[Sivi70980]

But Have you ever been inside a woman? Sorry I had to

Yeesh lol

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