Performance calibration

[Buldawg76]

Not to cause a scene here, but I think its foolish to run a tune on a otherwise stock car.

Crazy to me people will jeopardize the 5 year powertrain warranty for 20hp and maybe better throttle response.

I don't feel that adding an upgrade such as a better IC will void any factory warranty since they have to prove the better IC actually caused the failure which is almost entirely impossible provided it was installed correctly. It definitely will improve heat soak issues and lessen chances of engine damage from said heat soaks issues.

I would fight the factory over warranty denial for upgraded IC, just like I am doing right now for FP tune issues on my 2020 eco stang and I am going to come out of it for the better at this point in the negotiations.

Look up Magnusson Moss act.

BD

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[Mspider]

I don't feel that adding an upgrade such as a better IC will void any factory warranty since they have to prove the better IC actually caused the failure which is almost entirely impossible provided it was installed correctly. It definitely will improve heat soak issues and lessen chances of engine damage from said heat soaks issues.

I would fight the factory over warranty denial for upgraded IC, just like I am doing right now for FP tune issues on my 2020 eco stang and I am going to come out of it for the better at this point in the negotiations.

Look up Magnusson Moss act.

BD

Yea that`s not how things work in the real world. And a dealership can blame or deny work for any reason. If a dealership blames the IC on your engine failure. You cannot call the police and say "Magnusson Moss warranty act". It will not get you anymore. Its so funny how many people think this act is a magic wand.

The Magnusson Moss act warranty act was created so that people can use aftermarket parts that meet OEM specifications without being forced to buy directly from dealership/OEM manufacturer. It was not created so that people can buy aftermarket parts that are not within OEM spec and make dealerships/manufacturer prove the part did not cause the failure.

 

[ApplesAndOranges]

You're not going to threaten your warranty with an intercooler upgrade. Not even close. A larger intercooler does the opposite of what is feared- it improves the operation of the vehicle and decreases the chance of a damaging cylinder event.

There are reasons why Ford would install a tiny intercooler. 1. Cost 2. Product placement.

 

[Buldawg76]

Yea that`s not how things work in the real world. And a dealership can blame or deny work for any reason. If a dealership blames the IC on your engine failure. You cannot call the police and say "Magnusson Moss warranty act". It will not get you anymore. Its so funny how many people think this act is a magic wand.

The Magnusson Moss act warranty act was created so that people can use aftermarket parts that meet OEM specifications without being forced to buy directly from dealership/OEM manufacturer. It was not created so that people can buy aftermarket parts that are not within OEM spec and make dealerships/manufacturer prove the part did not cause the failure.

Don't think it's a magic wand but being in the business as a tech for 50 years I do know the dealer inner workings and how to play the game. I also have a very good relationship with my dealer so not worried about warranty issues. It's not just about OEM versus aftermarket parts and any reputable upgraded IC is by far well above any OEM specifications standards especially the cheap plastic and aluminum factory IC.

How many years have you been repairing cars under warranty to actually know what gets covered and what does not. It takes very little griping from a customer to get repairs covered that are very clearly from neglect and misuse by the owners.

BD

 

[Mspider]

You're not going to threaten your warranty with an intercooler upgrade. Not even close. A larger intercooler does the opposite of what is feared- it improves the operation of the vehicle and decreases the chance of a damaging cylinder event.

There are reasons why Ford would install a tiny intercooler. 1. Cost 2. Product placement.

Yea I have heard this a million times. People think they are doing the car a favor by adding aftermarket parts. If you think ford or a dealership views this the same way you are completely wrong. But it all comes back to our own individual risk tolerance.

You have to think of it from there perspective. Ford spent millions of dollars on R/D and you put something that is not tested and not installed from factory or dealership. Now they have to prove YOUR part did not cause a failure?

Don't think it's a magic wand but being in the business as a tech for 50 years I do know the dealer inner workings and how to play the game. I also have a very good relationship with my dealer so not worried about warranty issues. It's not just about OEM versus aftermarket parts and any reputable upgraded IC is by far well above any OEM specifications standards especially the cheap plastic and aluminum factory IC.

How many years have you been repairing cars under warranty to actually know what gets covered and what does not. It takes very little griping from a customer to get repairs covered that are very clearly from neglect and misuse by the owners.

BD

Yea not everyone knows the inner workings or has time to play stupid games with dealerships. So its important to educate people here that when you add aftermarket parts you may have to play stupid games with dealerships to get it fixed for free.

Otherwise stay stock and take care of your car.

 

[ApplesAndOranges]

Yea I have heard this a million times. People think they are doing the car a favor by adding aftermarket parts. If you think ford or a dealership views this the same way you are completely wrong. But it all comes back to our own individual risk tolerance.

You have to think of it from there perspective. Ford spent millions of dollars on R/D and you put something that is not tested and not installed from factory or dealership. Now they have to prove YOUR part did not cause a failure?



Yea not everyone knows the inner workings or has time to play stupid games with dealerships. So its important to educate people here that when you add aftermarket parts you may have to play stupid games with dealerships to get it fixed for free.

Otherwise stay stock and take care of your car.

A dealership can give you a hard time about anything at anytime. I dont make decisions around this fact. If it worries someone, they should wait to modify their car. Intercoolers, brake rotors, spoilers, tune-free air intakes. They're low risk.

 

[Shawn82]

A dealership can give you a hard time about anything at anytime. I dont make decisions around this fact. If it worries someone, they should wait to modify their car. Intercoolers, brake rotors, spoilers, tune-free air intakes. They're low risk.

Exactly. I'm not sure why this is bothering him so much. An intercooler benefits these cars a lot.

 

[Mspider]

Exactly. I'm not sure why this is bothering him so much. An intercooler benefits these cars a lot.

Not bothered at all about it haha. Just home from work and relaxing on my computer. Got nothing else to do at the moment. I just have a different view point and I am expressing it.

Had some bad experiences in the past modding cars.

 

[Buldawg76]

I guess I am at the other end of the spectrum since have been the tech in a dealership that always seemed to get the shaft from having to fix cars under warranty time for issues that were either caused by neglect of the owners or because they pitched a fit over having a car that's out of warranty but think it should be fixed for free.

I made a living from the mid 70s fixing cars and if I had 10 dollars for every car, I had to fix under warranty that was out of warranty or neglect I would be a wealthy man.

IMO there are very very few mass-produced vehicles that are anywhere close to being over engineered to the point that there is no part of the the car that is the best it can be. It can always be improved over factory stock or there would be no aftermarket manufactures at all.

Just an FYI, I worked at GM dealerships, not Ford but when GM took the govt bailout money I was done with them. So never have worked for Ford yet have owned 4 new Fords since they did not take bailout money but rather restructured to stay in business. All the big corporations should have been allowed to sink or swim IMO.

BD

 

[Mspider]

The factory parts on the mustang (and most cars) are not as good as they could be, totally agree. But as long as they work and ford gives us a reasonable warranty its acceptable. Which is why I go back to my original statement. There is no point in changing the intercooler (among other parts) if you are not seeing any problems currently and are still under factory warranty. Just wait until your warranty expires then replace everything you want with better parts.

Now if you bought your mustang to race or modding cars is therapeutic to you. Maybe its a different story.

 

[Buldawg76]

The factory parts on the mustang (and most cars) are not as good as they could be, totally agree. But as long as they work and ford gives us a reasonable warranty its acceptable. Which is why I go back to my original statement. There is no point in changing the intercooler (among other parts) if you are not seeing any problems currently and are still under factory warranty. Just wait until your warranty expires then replace everything you want with better parts.

Now if you bought your mustang to race or modding cars is therapeutic to you. Maybe its a different story.

Agree 100% with the first paragraph except when it come the the factory IC Ford chose to use in the ecos. I do understand they have to work within cost and manufacturing constraints. But the stock IC is woefully small to deal with the higher heat we see in the south in the summertime. My car will only do one WOT pull from 0 to 100 mph before the stock IC is already heat soaking in 100-degree temps and the PCM is pulling timing to keep detonation from occurring. I installed an aftermarket street IC and can at least get 5 pulls before I start to feel any power loss from the PCM going into engine protection mode. Do I constantly do back-to-back WOT pulls, of course not since I do want my car to live a long healthily life. But the fact that the stock IC heat soaks after only one WOT pull to me is totally unacceptable.

I went on the Hot Rod Power Tour this past June 13th thru 17th here in the southeast from Memphis, Nashville, Birmingham, Pensacola, Atlanta and it was 100 degrees every day of the 1500 miles trip. I saw IAT 1 temps of 150 degrees in traffic and IAT 2 temps of 160 plus with the aftermarket IC so could only imagine what the IATs would have been with the stock IC. The PCM starts pulling timing at temps of 130 degrees and goes into failsafe mode over 150. Yes, this was idling in traffic so no real loads, but my car did start to idle rough when the IAT 2 temp hit 160 degrees so it was going into failsafe by raising the idle speed even with the bigger aftermarket IC. On the highway with ambient temps of 99/100 degrees I was still seeing IAT 1 temps of 110 to 115 degrees and IAT 2 temps of 120 /125 so very close to the PCM pulling timing and power loss from the heat while just cruising at 75 mph.

You being up in Michigan likely do not experience anything close to those high temps we see in the south, so the stock IC is fairly adequate in your climate but most certainly not mine.

I do like to mod and have always found that improving a car from what the factory produced is very satisfying and worthwhile. I am the type that do not trust anyone else but myself to repair my cars since I have been an ASE master tech since 1977, GM master tech for Cadillac. Pontiac, Oldsmobile and GMC as well as a Harley master tech when I worked for the motor company helping develop the V-rod from 98 to 2008 at Talladega Test Facility as a durability tech in research and development. There is no system in my car that I am not capable of repairing and maintaining with my 50 years of tools in my garage. I am retried now so nothing better to do with my time.

BD

 

[TeeLew]

I did dyno runs on my car when it was bone stock. The car could not make a single dyno pull without pulling timing and falling on its face. That's not even 15 seconds full throttle. The intercooler sucks.

 

[Mspider]

Agree 100% with the first paragraph except when it come the the factory IC Ford chose to use in the ecos. I do understand they have to work within cost and manufacturing constraints. But the stock IC is woefully small to deal with the higher heat we see in the south in the summertime. My car will only do one WOT pull from 0 to 100 mph before the stock IC is already heat soaking in 100-degree temps and the PCM is pulling timing to keep detonation from occurring. I installed an aftermarket street IC and can at least get 5 pulls before I start to feel any power loss from the PCM going into engine protection mode. Do I constantly do back-to-back WOT pulls, of course not since I do want my car to live a long healthily life. But the fact that the stock IC heat soaks after only one WOT pull to me is totally unacceptable.

I went on the Hot Rod Power Tour this past June 13th thru 17th here in the southeast from Memphis, Nashville, Birmingham, Pensacola, Atlanta and it was 100 degrees every day of the 1500 miles trip. I saw IAT 1 temps of 150 degrees in traffic and IAT 2 temps of 160 plus with the aftermarket IC so could only imagine what the IATs would have been with the stock IC. The PCM starts pulling timing at temps of 130 degrees and goes into failsafe mode over 150. Yes, this was idling in traffic so no real loads, but my car did start to idle rough when the IAT 2 temp hit 160 degrees so it was going into failsafe by raising the idle speed even with the bigger aftermarket IC. On the highway with ambient temps of 99/100 degrees I was still seeing IAT 1 temps of 110 to 115 degrees and IAT 2 temps of 120 /125 so very close to the PCM pulling timing and power loss from the heat while just cruising at 75 mph.

You being up in Michigan likely do not experience anything close to those high temps we see in the south, so the stock IC is fairly adequate in your climate but most certainly not mine.

I do like to mod and have always found that improving a car from what the factory produced is very satisfying and worthwhile. I am the type that do not trust anyone else but myself to repair my cars since I have been an ASE master tech since 1977, GM master tech for Cadillac. Pontiac, Oldsmobile and GMC as well as a Harley master tech when I worked for the motor company helping develop the V-rod from 98 to 2008 at Talladega Test Facility as a durability tech in research and development. There is no system in my car that I am not capable of repairing and maintaining with my 50 years of tools in my garage. I am retried now so nothing better to do with my time.

BD

Yea if you are having noticeable problems, then its worth upgrading it.

 

[TeeLew]

Yea if you are having noticeable problems, then its worth upgrading it.

Well, thanks for that, Cassandra.

 

[Buldawg76]

I am happy with the upgraded IC I installed and have no concern over any warranty issue from doing so.

BD

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