OPG Needed on 2020 Models

[GreenS550]

So Roush uses 5W-50
Is there some type of magic going on with 50wt cushioning the OEM OPG ?
Again, I haven’t a clue. Just asking.

My guess is the 550 recommendation is for increased pressure on the rod main bearings due to the blower or extreme RPM use in tracking

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[WildHorse]

Is there some type of magic going on with 50wt cushioning the OEM OPG ?

There is no cushioning with the OPG, it's just there to move oil. Ford always recommended 5w50 for any tracking. Cheers buddy.

 

[GregO]

There is no cushioning with the OPG, it's just there to move oil.

I guess my thought was the increased oil film thickness of the 50wt protecting the gerotor assembly if and when full load revlimiter harmonics are transmitted through the crankshaft.

 

[engineermike]

There is a theory that higher viscosity could help dampen the chatter in the oil pump and maybe prevent failures, but it’s all theory and anecdotal. Higher viscosity will also put more load on them as well. Has anyone broken them when running 50 weight? With the rarity of gen3 opg failures, it’s hard to really correlate them to anything.

 

[GregO]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerotor

I can also see centrifugal force @ 8000+ RPM's causing the outer rotor to expand. A little to much expansion and metal to metal contact and Poof, all hell breaks loose.
I have no idea, I'm just in the mood to throw ideas out there today.

 

[Adamone92]

Honestly, whether they are needed or not has no real 100% answer. Hence why its debated on here all of the time.

I agree and disagree with doing them, so ill play devils advocate.

For my 2018 mustang gt with a vmp odin supercharger, i went ahead and did it. My reasons were:
A) i was doing the full install myself. Doing the OPG was just a little extra work to do, and for my peace of mind, it was worth it.
B) It was a learning experience for me
C) It was cheap, relatively speaking, insurance after paying ~8k for a supercharger.

If you are installing it yourself and going boost, i say go for it. I wouldn't pay a place to do it though.

A common theory I've seen a lot is that they break due to user error. Bouncing off the rev limiter, etc. I can't prove or disprove that as being the only way they break. To advocate it though, i can say accidents do happen, traction can be lost causing rpms to spike quickly, etc. You have to decide if its worth it to you. You might need them, you might not. Id say if you are the type of driver to bounce off the rev limiter a lot, or not pay attention to things like that EVERY time you are getting on it, then do it.

@WildHorse does bring up a great point about roush warrantying it with stock opgs and i agree completely. However, to play devils advocate a bit, if they look at your logs and find ANY type of evidence that the user may have caused the damage (ie too high in the rpms, getting on it too hard, whatever a dealership might try to say), i bet they wont cover it. I personally dont trust dealerships that much to honor it if it comes down to that. Also, doesn't the roush setup and tune come pretty limited? Even the redline is limited right? (Opposed to other setups and tunes?) If so..there may be a reason for that. I also wasnt considering a roush though, and can't say i know 100% what they will without a doubt cover, its just some thoughts.

Using 5w50 isnt roush exclusive. Whipple and all other superchargers recommend it. So id say fairly safe to assume most the failures are with 5w50 if people stick to recommendations.

Ford is also starting to sell billet crank sprockets from what ive seen. Arguments can be made for and against that as well. Them being needed, vs ford cashing in on people buying them and such.

Either way. Are you going to be constantly worried about it, AND doing install yourself? If yes, i say go for it.

If the answer to either of those is no, i say dont worry about it. Plenty of cars running just fine without it.

 

[WildHorse]

A little to much expansion and metal to metal contact and Poof, all hell breaks loose.

That's why there's clearances. a uniform .016" iirc on the factory OPG, all over the place on aftermarket ones.

 

[GregO]

That's why there's clearances.

Clearance to what end ?
Break that oil film and the boogie man shows up.

 

[WildHorse]

Break that oil film and the boogie man shows up.

You can't compress a liquid, so unless you run outta oil pressure, you OPG will be just fine.

 

[GregO]

https://lmengines.com/pages/why-mod-motor-oil-pump-gears-and-timing-components-fail

 

[GreenS550]

Using 5w50 isnt roush exclusive. Whipple and all other superchargers recommend it. So id say fairly safe to assume most the failures are with 5w50 if people stick to recommendations.

Ford is also starting to sell billet crank sprockets from what ive seen. Arguments can be made for and against that as well. Them being needed, vs ford cashing in on people buying them and such.

Ford Performance sell all kinds of stuff so selling crank sprockets or OPG in not in any way a statement that the parts are necessary. Ford recommends 5-50 synthetic on their PP1 cars. The statement that your assumption that most failures occur with 5w50 does not imply causation. If you put the VMP blower on your car and use the standard 5w20 the strain on the main and rod bearings is exceeding the Ford recommendations. Witness the blown factory cars Ford sells such at the 07-14 and 2020 GT500 which Ford recommends 5w50. In fact the GT350 and other cars including those that have hypereutectic pistons as well.

Most of the Coyote failures I have read about including the one I owned occurred from the ring lands breaking due to expansion of the top ring expanding too much and breaking the top ring land off. That has nothing to do with OPGs.

People that are really concerned would be better off being very anal on their tune. Reviewing the datalogging themselves on a regular basis. Or, better yet, install forged pistons as they are the weakest link, not the OPGs.

Just my opinion mind you : )

 

[GregO]

Ford recommends 5-50 synthetic on their PP1 cars.

Please post the official Ford document stating 5W-50 oil for the PP1 5.0.

 

[GreenS550]

If you have a PP car, its in your owners manual. Here you go:

https://www.motorcraft.com/content/... and crankcase applications chart_english.pdf

 

[Adamone92]

Ford Performance sell all kinds of stuff so selling crank sprockets or OPG in not in any way a statement that the parts are necessary. Ford recommends 5-50 synthetic on their PP1 cars. The statement that your assumption that most failures occur with 5w50 does not imply causation. If you put the VMP blower on your car and use the standard 5w20 the strain on the main and rod bearings is exceeding the Ford recommendations. Witness the blown factory cars Ford sells such at the 07-14 and 2020 GT500 which Ford recommends 5w50. In fact the GT350 and other cars including those that have hypereutectic pistons as well.

Most of the Coyote failures I have read about including the one I owned occurred from the ring lands breaking due to expansion of the top ring expanding too much and breaking the top ring land off. That has nothing to do with OPGs.

People that are really concerned would be better off being very anal on their tune. Reviewing the datalogging themselves on a regular basis. Or, better yet, install forged pistons as they are the weakest link, not the OPGs.

Just my opinion mind you : )

I think you should reread what i said. Because you clearly didnt understand, at the very least, what i was trying to say. That could be my fault. Who knows.

Ill explain further, as you either missed what i said, or what i was referencing.

For the 5w50..someone asked if roush uses that oil to PREVENT the opg issue. I said its not roush exclusive. So if you are looking to see if cars with 5w50 did not have the issue, or did, you can look at pretty much any supercharged car as they all recommend 5w50. I never claimed any causation. If anything, i was claiming more towards the opposite. Also fyi, i used 5w50 with my odin. I also didnt "assume" anything other than most supercharged mustangs are using the recommended 5w50.

Secondly, in my VERY part where i brought up ford selling the billet crank sprockets, i gave both sides of the argument. Either them doing it because it needs an upgrade, OR (which you seemed to miss) they are cashing in on people buying them. Maybe you also missed the "devils advocate" part. I didnt pick a side my entire post. So you arent arguing against any of my points really.

 

[GreenS550]

BTW, I do not believe Ford used billet oil pump gears in their earlier supercharged GT500s either.

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