Oil recommendation

[Angrey]

watch this video and judge for yourself

While that video is insightful, it leaves out one of the biggest (if not THE biggest) aspects of lubrication and that's protection under harsh conditions.

Heat the oil to high 200's and see how it behaves to protect the motor. The two biggest threats to a motor are cold start up conditions and very hot and high shear conditions under load/abuse.

Horsepower and output aspects are great, but I want to be sure that my motor isn't eating itself when I'm flogging it at 240F. And quite frankly, all the usual arguments avoid the issue of oil group. The vast majority of the oils on the retail automotive market are group IV oils. They all start off as a PAO base stock, which comes with a set of limitations with it.

There's a reason why commercial applications for expensive cost machinery (not just in terms of the components and assembly cost, but DOWN TIME and loss of revenue, emergency repair costs, etc) tend to gravitate toward higher quality lubricants that hold up under temperature and shear. Enter polyesters.

Again, this has been discussed before. Most polyester oils are "race" or specialty and boutique. They don't meet certification criteria because quite frankly, not only are they NOT trying, meeting the cert criteria would mean reducing vitally crucial things like ZDDP, which is not good for catalytic converter longevity.

Manufacturers and their "certs" don't care the same about the things that most enthusiasts care about. They care about fuel economy. They care about protecting the cats and environmental performance aspects. I obviously care about max power output, but NOT at the expense of damaging my motor and cutting it's life short.

When you're going to flog the eff out of the motor at high temp, the most important metrics are A) HTHS value B) ZDDP, Moly and additive package content and to a lesser degree C) Noack and nowadays with direct injection (if that applies to you) Calcium content.

Pick the oil with the best HTHS and ZDDP/Moly package. Try to get one with a decent Noack. And if you have DI, try to find one with low Calcium. Beyond that, the rest is all distraction and convolution.

Sponsored

 

[WildHorse]

watch this video and judge for yourself

Don't need to watch it. 20w50. Period.

 

[markayash]

While that video is insightful, it leaves out one of the biggest (if not THE biggest) aspects of lubrication and that's protection under harsh conditions.

Heat the oil to high 200's and see how it behaves to protect the motor. The two biggest threats to a motor are cold start up conditions and very hot and high shear conditions under load/abuse.

Horsepower and output aspects are great, but I want to be sure that my motor isn't eating itself when I'm flogging it at 240F. And quite frankly, all the usual arguments avoid the issue of oil group. The vast majority of the oils on the retail automotive market are group IV oils. They all start off as a PAO base stock, which comes with a set of limitations with it.

There's a reason why commercial applications for expensive cost machinery (not just in terms of the components and assembly cost, but DOWN TIME and loss of revenue, emergency repair costs, etc) tend to gravitate toward higher quality lubricants that hold up under temperature and shear. Enter polyesters.

Again, this has been discussed before. Most polyester oils are "race" or specialty and boutique. They don't meet certification criteria because quite frankly, not only are they NOT trying, meeting the cert criteria would mean reducing vitally crucial things like ZDDP, which is not good for catalytic converter longevity.

Manufacturers and their "certs" don't care the same about the things that most enthusiasts care about. They care about fuel economy. They care about protecting the cats and environmental performance aspects. I obviously care about max power output, but NOT at the expense of damaging my motor and cutting it's life short.

When you're going to flog the eff out of the motor at high temp, the most important metrics are A) HTHS value B) ZDDP, Moly and additive package content and to a lesser degree C) Noack and nowadays with direct injection (if that applies to you) Calcium content.

Pick the oil with the best HTHS and ZDDP/Moly package. Try to get one with a decent Noack. And if you have DI, try to find one with low Calcium. Beyond that, the rest is all distraction and convolution.

Follow the science and do oil samples

 

[markayash]

While that video is insightful, it leaves out one of the biggest (if not THE biggest) aspects of lubrication and that's protection under harsh conditions.

Heat the oil to high 200's and see how it behaves to protect the motor. The two biggest threats to a motor are cold start up conditions and very hot and high shear conditions under load/abuse.

Horsepower and output aspects are great, but I want to be sure that my motor isn't eating itself when I'm flogging it at 240F. And quite frankly, all the usual arguments avoid the issue of oil group. The vast majority of the oils on the retail automotive market are group IV oils. They all start off as a PAO base stock, which comes with a set of limitations with it.

There's a reason why commercial applications for expensive cost machinery (not just in terms of the components and assembly cost, but DOWN TIME and loss of revenue, emergency repair costs, etc) tend to gravitate toward higher quality lubricants that hold up under temperature and shear. Enter polyesters.

Again, this has been discussed before. Most polyester oils are "race" or specialty and boutique. They don't meet certification criteria because quite frankly, not only are they NOT trying, meeting the cert criteria would mean reducing vitally crucial things like ZDDP, which is not good for catalytic converter longevity.

Manufacturers and their "certs" don't care the same about the things that most enthusiasts care about. They care about fuel economy. They care about protecting the cats and environmental performance aspects. I obviously care about max power output, but NOT at the expense of damaging my motor and cutting it's life short.

When you're going to flog the eff out of the motor at high temp, the most important metrics are A) HTHS value B) ZDDP, Moly and additive package content and to a lesser degree C) Noack and nowadays with direct injection (if that applies to you) Calcium content.

Pick the oil with the best HTHS and ZDDP/Moly package. Try to get one with a decent Noack. And if you have DI, try to find one with low Calcium. Beyond that, the rest is all distraction and convolution.

Lake worked as an oil specialist at Joe Gibbs racing so know a little about oil and abuse. Have some cool videos

 

[Angrey]

Don't need to watch it. 20w50. Period.

I'm running a relatively thicker 5w-50 and I have to let the oil get to 190 or better before the idle pressure drops to something comfortable. 20W-50 would be preferable for harsh track use but I'm not sure you'd get the oil warm enough not to risk over pressure in normal street driving.

 

[WildHorse]

I'm running a relatively thicker 5w-50 and I have to let the oil get to 190 or better before the idle pressure drops to something comfortable. 20W-50 would be preferable for harsh track use but I'm not sure you'd get the oil warm enough not to risk over pressure in normal street driving.

Well the good news is is that thicker oil is better in every single way except for a slight loss in fuel economy & horsepower. However the coyote has excellent windage control so the HP loss will be negligable.

 

[Angrey]

Well the good news is is that thicker oil is better in every single way except for a slight loss in fuel economy & horsepower. However the coyote has excellent windage control so the HP loss will be negligable.

Depends on the brand, most 20w-50 oils that are PAO are unnecessarily thick, meaning they have less viscosity at 100C than polyester and yet are thicker at 40C when you need it thin for cold lubrication.

For instance, for all the nutswinging Amsoil disciples plague us with, Amsoil 20w-50 is thicker at 40C and thinner at 100C than Redline 5w-50. It's difficult to get HTHS values for many American sold products but it's hard to believe it would have a better HTHS than RL5W50 given that it's already thinner at 212F.

At the end of the day, there's no way around starting off as a wholly different chemical base group. Ester oils are just better.

 

[COYOTTMach1]

Ok so for a daily driver twin turbo mach 1 tht isnt flogged all the time but does see spirited driving. Currently i am using 5w30 pennzoil plat ultra .... would this be the ideal oil or would the pennzoil 5w40 euro be better?

 

[engineermike]

It’s hard to beat pennzoil euro 5w40 for our purposes. I had to go to Redline 5w50 due to my xdi hpfp, though. I use qs or pp euro 5w40 in everything I can….jet ski, atv, f-150, etc.

@Angrey i think the situation is worse than you realize. I’m pretty sure most mainstream US “synthetic” oils are actually group 3 base oil.

 

[WildHorse]

It’s hard to beat pennzoil euro 5w40 for our purposes.

I don't always agree with Mike, but I agree with this 1000%

for all the nutswinging Amsoil disciples

Was never a fan.

 

[Angrey]

I don't always agree with Mike, but I agree with this 1000%


Was never a fan.

I just used Amsoil because like clockwork some asshat would chime in that they're somehow different. The ester oils tend to be a little thicker than their PAO blend counterparts (5w-50 vs 5w-50) but to achieve the same high viscosity and protection means you have to give up low end flow.

 

[COYOTTMach1]

Thanks guys 5w40 euro it is

 

[cbrtrx]

Not sure if mentioned but thicker oil runs hotter as well, it has less heat transfer. I've notice a decent increase in temp as I went up in viscosity in multiple cars. I run mobil 5w50 fsx2, it's a little on the thinner side as some others but I've had good luck with it for many years now and it's usually on sale as well. An employee from Joe Gibbs racing told me that's also the same oil they use for their 5w50 they just add their additive package to it.

 

[Meatball]

Just a random note here on the subject of oil. I have a whippled gen2, 30K miles (20K with the whipple). Always used Rotella or Castrol euro synthetic 5W40. This time used motorcraft full syn 5w50. For the very first time in 7 years and 30K miles, the TICK is present and with a vengeance.

 

[wingnutt]

only 6 pages? This oughta help…

Sponsored