Not a fair comparison at all. CVT Civic vs. Mustang GT

[shogun32]

Reality: it’s easily assignable as a shortcut, accessible and defeated with a single swipe, and a single press. You can have four hot key shortcuts.

so the user has to setup a short-cut to overcome shitty-ass design.

5) “There isn’t any way to turn on heated seats without diving into menus.”

Reality: you just use a two finger tap on the temperature sliders.

which is intuitive to no one. A physical button clearly labeled is intuitive and operation is self-evident. God damn cell phone people designing interfaces for cars, needs to hanged and shot. That nonsense of multi-finger swipe and pinch that Apple in particular forces people to learn on their incredibly crappy track pad is NOT something to emulate. The rules of Human-factors engineering haven't changed in 50 years. No matter how much it's been abandoned and perverted by kids who grew up 'adapting' to the tortuous Twister imposed by i-gadgets and the like.

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[WildHorse]

DEFINITELY need to "learn to drive"

Fixed it for ya.

 

[OppoLock]

so the user has to setup a short-cut to overcome shitty-ass design.


which is intuitive to no one. A physical button clearly labeled is intuitive and operation is self-evident. God damn cell phone people designing interfaces for cars, needs to hanged and shot. That nonsense of multi-finger swipe and pinch that Apple in particular forces people to learn on their incredibly crappy track pad is NOT something to emulate. The rules of Human-factors engineering haven't changed in 50 years. No matter how much it's been abandoned and perverted by kids who grew up 'adapting' to the tortuous Twister imposed by i-gadgets and the like.

You are exactly the kind of dramatic forum dweller I’m talking about. Yikes dude.

 

[shogun32]

You are exactly the kind of dramatic forum dweller I’m talking about. Yikes dude.

human factors and interface design happens to be something I'm interested in.

 

[Hack]

OK, addressing to the amazing 'Stang lovers I've been reading here:

I know I'm being ridiculous and maybe need to "learn to drive" but does anyone feel that a GT is an absolute boat compared to smaller cars that feel more maneuverable/ confidence inspiring? My daily is a 2017 hatch. It's my secret mileage weapon, dog and kid carrier and I have a killer upgraded sound system in it to survive the commute. I can RIP around an exit ramp with it and then.....you know, slowly accelerate up to highway speed with my dinky engine. If I take this same rip in my 2018 GT convertible, the back end is kicking out and the suspension feels like it's fighting with reality against the bulk of the car. Nope, I don't have the PP1 dampers and yes, they would undoubtedly help but my point is: The car is doing amazing (compensating) things around a corner but it seems ARTIFICAL compared to a planted smaller car. A Focus ST or GTI comes to mind way more than my econobox. But here I am lasering around a white line in a honda and only doing it in the Mustang if I'm ready to hold a slide and confident no one is near me.

I read so many guys debating the S550 vs other performance cars and I'm always thinking to myself - does anyone go slumming like me and really enjoy pushing a car with less power that feels so much more natural than these rocket boats? Anyone else look at these performance discussions and say "yes, these cars are STUNNING but I can take a corner faster in a Ford Fiesta?"

I own a Fiesta and it's fun, but it doesn't corner better than a Mustang. I haven't owned or driven a Civic, but I'm going to guess it's like most front wheel drive vehicles. EXTREMELY safe. Understeer everywhere and difficult to ever get oversteer.

My Fiesta ST basically gives you a yellow flashing light when you are spinning the tires. It doesn't pull power. EVER. And it doesn't need to. Even a novice can spin the tires all the time and never be in danger of losing control.

Compared to a Mustang - you have to pay attention to what you are doing. One thing I will agree on with the Mustang. It's a huge boat. And it feels even more boaty because Ford insists on putting complete mush suspension in it. My PP1 springs and shocks had to be replaced immediately. Even the "upgraded" PP1 suspension is too soft. There's no body control, which makes it more difficult to feel what the car is doing around you.

But if you have decent suspension under a modern Mustang, they handle great. They turn corners a lot better than most front wheel drive cars. And especially they do a better job of accelerating out of corners. I think if you ever got your cars out on a track your eyes would be opened with respect to how good the Mustang can be.

Edit: I do agree that smaller, lighter vehicles are more fun to drive. That's why I'm constantly beating that drum on these forums. Mustangs would be a lot better if they were a little smaller and lighter. Even removing just a couple hundred pounds would be a big improvement.

 

[ice445]

I've been tempted by a new / newish Chevy Sonic plus slight tune, dampers, tires. FIAT 500 also a blast very comfortable, great audio, and bullet proof...had one on a whim was a blast.

I do miss my Abarth sometimes. It was about as fun as you could ever realistically have on the street, and it sounded great to boot.

As someone who's owned more small and zippy cars than heavy ones like the Mustang, I'm kind of torn. The Mustang has insane levels of character and you can't help but have fun driving it around, even if you're doing nothing exciting. Most small cars you have to really rip on to have fun with. The Abarth was the exception in that regard, it had just as much character because it's just a weird, quirky car. Honestly, rear wheel drive is the deciding factor for me. FWD cars all feel the same ripping through a corner, it's fun yeah, but it just doesn't have the same flow that you can achieve with a RWD car. Even though I have to manage the heft of the massive boat, being able to feel both ends of the car doing different things and having more aspects of vehicle control to manage is just more enjoyable to me. As a result, the Mustang is more fun to go 5/10 in the canyons as a whole compared to my old GTI or Abarth going 8/10. In FWD cars at a certain pace you're just going to be blowing the front tires off and understeering no matter what. Yeah, you can get the rear end to step out a little, but it will always follow the front in an arc and catch up. In a RWD car, if you don't do something to stop it, you're changing ends, lol. Of course, these cars are actually pretty forgiving, especially considering the bias towards understeer from the factory. Driving on the chimpy 235 wide all seasons helped me learn the chassis quite well, so I'm excited to see how much I can get out of it with some proper wheels and tires this year.

Also OP, you have a convertible which is inherently compromised compared to the coupe, so it's no surprise you really notice the suckage compared to a light and tight small car experience.

 

[Bedub76]

I absolutely loved the usable fun of my mk7 GTIs. Unfortunately, both ended up letting me down to the point I went back to a mustang for a daily. My 17 S was bought back by VW for something in the top end that they couldn't figure out and my 19 Rabbit had the noisiest injectors ever. I actually think they snuck in a banned leftover diesel without me knowing. That bad. Outside of the QC issues that seemed to plague my VWs the overall build quality, useable HP, plaid seats, and driving dynamics were awesome. Very similar to my first gen (but not second) Mazdaspeed 3.
Little hatches are great fun but there is a reason that most of us keep going back the V8 mustangs. I may not get to use all the power all the time, but its nice to know that its there.

 

[ice445]

I absolutely loved the usable fun of my mk7 GTIs. Unfortunately, both ended up letting me down to the point I went back to a mustang for a daily. My 17 S was bought back by VW for something in the top end that they couldn't figure out and my 19 Rabbit had the noisiest injectors ever. I actually think they snuck in a banned leftover diesel without me knowing. That bad. Outside of the QC issues that seemed to plague my VWs the overall build quality, useable HP, plaid seats, and driving dynamics were awesome. Very similar to my first gen (but not second) Mazdaspeed 3.
Little hatches are great fun but there is a reason that most of us keep going back the V8 mustangs. I may not get to use all the power all the time, but its nice to know that its there.

My mk7 GTI went through 2 water pumps and a cam cover in 50k, not exactly confidence inspiring lol

 

[brent_G]

I own a Fiesta and it's fun, but it doesn't corner better than a Mustang. I haven't owned or driven a Civic, but I'm going to guess it's like most front wheel drive vehicles. EXTREMELY safe. Understeer everywhere and difficult to ever get oversteer.

My Fiesta ST basically gives you a yellow flashing light when you are spinning the tires. It doesn't pull power. EVER. And it doesn't need to. Even a novice can spin the tires all the time and never be in danger of losing control.

Compared to a Mustang - you have to pay attention to what you are doing. One thing I will agree on with the Mustang. It's a huge boat. And it feels even more boaty because Ford insists on putting complete mush suspension in it. My PP1 springs and shocks had to be replaced immediately. Even the "upgraded" PP1 suspension is too soft. There's no body control, which makes it more difficult to feel what the car is doing around you.

But if you have decent suspension under a modern Mustang, they handle great. They turn corners a lot better than most front wheel drive cars. And especially they do a better job of accelerating out of corners. I think if you ever got your cars out on a track your eyes would be opened with respect to how good the Mustang can be.

Edit: I do agree that smaller, lighter vehicles are more fun to drive. That's why I'm constantly beating that drum on these forums. Mustangs would be a lot better if they were a little smaller and lighter. Even removing just a couple hundred pounds would be a big improvement.

I'm in the same boat as you essentially. I have a 2015 FiST and a 2019 Mustang GT with a vortech. Biggest difference is that I can not put the peddle down to the floor with the mustang anytime I want; I have to feather the throttle and really pay attention. THe FiSt i can just hammer it everywhere and I know what to expect. Just feel more confident in how predicatable the FiST is compared to the mustang.

With that said, I feel proud driving around in the mustang. Where as in the FiST I'm always getting thumbs up from high school kids, which makes me feel old. haha

 

[Crowd Hunter]

Most fun car to drive that I've ever owned was a FBO Mini Cooper S with KW V2 coilovers, super stiff sway bars, and all poly bushings. It literally drove like a racecar and made me feel like a god, even though it only had about 230 hp. I love that car, and if it had not been so unreliable, I would still be driving it today.

 

[Jazzman0718]

I own a Fiesta and it's fun, but it doesn't corner better than a Mustang. I haven't owned or driven a Civic, but I'm going to guess it's like most front wheel drive vehicles. EXTREMELY safe. Understeer everywhere and difficult to ever get oversteer.

My Fiesta ST basically gives you a yellow flashing light when you are spinning the tires. It doesn't pull power. EVER. And it doesn't need to. Even a novice can spin the tires all the time and never be in danger of losing control.

Compared to a Mustang - you have to pay attention to what you are doing. One thing I will agree on with the Mustang. It's a huge boat. And it feels even more boaty because Ford insists on putting complete mush suspension in it. My PP1 springs and shocks had to be replaced immediately. Even the "upgraded" PP1 suspension is too soft. There's no body control, which makes it more difficult to feel what the car is doing around you.

But if you have decent suspension under a modern Mustang, they handle great. They turn corners a lot better than most front wheel drive cars. And especially they do a better job of accelerating out of corners. I think if you ever got your cars out on a track your eyes would be opened with respect to how good the Mustang can be.

Edit: I do agree that smaller, lighter vehicles are more fun to drive. That's why I'm constantly beating that drum on these forums. Mustangs would be a lot better if they were a little smaller and lighter. Even removing just a couple hundred pounds would be a big improvement.

That's awesome. The PP1 suspension too soft! I was soured by the ride in my brother's Focus ST. Teeth grinding. No dancing over potholes: You get croaked. So here I am with a GT convertible thinking hmmmm, I want to enjoy cruising with the fam and don't need to shake loose my wife's fillings. But damn, I gotta be pillow soft and boaty next to your setup. You've pushed me towards the idea of firming up a bit! I'm not even close to the middleground.

 

[Hack]

That's awesome. The PP1 suspension too soft! I was soured by the ride in my brother's Focus ST. Teeth grinding. No dancing over potholes: You get croaked. So here I am with a GT convertible thinking hmmmm, I want to enjoy cruising with the fam and don't need to shake loose my wife's fillings. But damn, I gotta be pillow soft and boaty next to your setup. You've pushed me towards the idea of firming up a bit! I'm not even close to the middleground.

It all depends on what you want. There's nothing wrong with having a super soft and comfortable ride. Much better for cruising with the top down.

 

[Lorne34]

That's awesome. The PP1 suspension too soft! I was soured by the ride in my brother's Focus ST. Teeth grinding. No dancing over potholes: You get croaked. So here I am with a GT convertible thinking hmmmm, I want to enjoy cruising with the fam and don't need to shake loose my wife's fillings. But damn, I gotta be pillow soft and boaty next to your setup. You've pushed me towards the idea of firming up a bit! I'm not even close to the middleground.

I've had a similar journey. When I bought my first Mustang (2016GT Coupe) it felt very floaty and large. Ended up doing some mods to the suspension, but went a bit too far. I then purchased a 2017 GT Vert and toned down the suspension mods a bit adding the steeda rear end alignment kit and a set of BMR springs. That helped considerably, but in the end, the vert is a cruiser and will feel large. I think that it what it is intended to be.
I eventually got into a GT350 which gave me the front end handling nimbleness that I was looking for. The car shrinks around you when you drive it. Yes, it's still a big car compared to a mini or civic and it does need to be reeved out. but It has the edginess and handling I was looking for.
If I had unlimited amount of $ and storage space... I would own a Miata, GT Vert, and a 350.
If we are resigned to one vehicle we have to ask what do we want more or what is the best compromise.

 

[Jazzman0718]

I've had a similar journey. When I bought my first Mustang (2016GT Coupe) it felt very floaty and large. Ended up doing some mods to the suspension, but went a bit too far. I then purchased a 2017 GT Vert and toned down the suspension mods a bit adding the steeda rear end alignment kit and a set of BMR springs. That helped considerably, but in the end, the vert is a cruiser and will feel large. I think that it what it is intended to be.
I eventually got into a GT350 which gave me the front end handling nimbleness that I was looking for. The car shrinks around you when you drive it. Yes, it's still a big car compared to a mini or civic and it does need to be reeved out. but It has the edginess and handling I was looking for.
If I had unlimited amount of $ and storage space... I would own a Miata, GT Vert, and a 350.
If we are resigned to one vehicle we have to ask what do we want more or what is the best compromise.

I like this game: GTI, GT Vert and a Corvette Stingray! errr, and a small old Ford Ranger pickup, a minivan for the kids and monster bug-out offroader of some kind. In a carriage house. With a bar.

 

[OppoLock]

I've had a similar journey. When I bought my first Mustang (2016GT Coupe) it felt very floaty and large. Ended up doing some mods to the suspension, but went a bit too far. I then purchased a 2017 GT Vert and toned down the suspension mods a bit adding the steeda rear end alignment kit and a set of BMR springs. That helped considerably, but in the end, the vert is a cruiser and will feel large. I think that it what it is intended to be.
I eventually got into a GT350 which gave me the front end handling nimbleness that I was looking for. The car shrinks around you when you drive it. Yes, it's still a big car compared to a mini or civic and it does need to be reeved out. but It has the edginess and handling I was looking for.
If I had unlimited amount of $ and storage space... I would own a Miata, GT Vert, and a 350.
If we are resigned to one vehicle we have to ask what do we want more or what is the best compromise.

I definitely subscribe to the idea of having two designated cars as opposed to an all-in-one for any given budget.

Previously, I was drawn to the jack-of-all cars, like Ms, AMGs, RSs, etc., but modern über commuters simply aren’t good compromises and lean towards schlong measuring contests more than anything. I’ve had ample seat time in older and current high performance luxury cars, and yes, they’re very fast, very, very capable, and very refined, but you have to beat them half to death and risk your license in order to get the smallest hit of dopamine.

If I had $80k, I’d rather have a normal sedan, maybe with some mild sporting pretensions to stave off boredom, but ultimately something spacious and economical, and then I’d want a raw toy car that I could enjoy on the streets without needing to hit triple digits or 1 G+ mid-corner, like a Miata or GR86.

And that’s my plan, to go Golf R and GR86. As opposed to something like a G80 M3 or whatnot. In an ideal world, have a garage like the one you listed.

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