Newsflash CF wheels are garbage

[Angrey]

I dont agree with most of that. To each their own however.

The market speaks for itself. How many R owners and track pack owners put their ridiculous priced wheels in the storage over the garage? It's not exaggeration to say a bunch, maybe even MOST.

I'm not certain I'd rock CF wheels even if they were the same price as lightweight fully forged wheels. The drawbacks aren't just theory or haters, they're significant. I have several dry carbon fiber parts on my car and I'll admit even with them, they come with drawbacks (other than price) and most of those aren't subjected to the spall and debris impacts of the wheels.

Sponsored

 

[Hack]

If you aren't in the habit of curbing your wheels, none of these arguments hold water. I also have another news flash. Wheels ARE a wear item. If CF wheels are abused, they become an expensive mistake - but they seem to last just fine on the street and the track.

This is the kind of owner's feedback I was hoping to see in this thread. How many miles do you have on your CF wheels? How many tire changes? I know the Sport Cup tires wear out fast, so my assumption is after so many years there are lots of tire changes on them. Probably at a minimum once per year, and lots more depending on how many track days.

I remember that C7 Grand Sport wheels were poorly designed or built (or both, not sure) by GM and those would frequently be damaged on track. Those were aluminum wheels, so it's not necessarily a material only thing.

 

[stanglife]

The market speaks for itself. How many R owners and track pack owners put their ridiculous priced wheels in the storage over the garage? It's not exaggeration to say a bunch, maybe even MOST.

I'm not certain I'd rock CF wheels even if they were the same price as lightweight fully forged wheels. The drawbacks aren't just theory or haters, they're significant. I have several dry carbon fiber parts on my car and I'll admit even with them, they come with drawbacks (other than price) and most of those aren't subjected to the spall and debris impacts of the wheels.

people pull them to keep them nice due to them being a unique first ever supplied kind of part for a special car - not because they have a realistic expectation that they will fail while driving. This is just stupid. You aren’t even making sense.

 

[MAGS1]

I've already got one of those going. I buy used wheels that have typical repairable damage and repair them, to include the ceramic lining.

Sell them all to me folks, sell them to me.

Do you typically resell them after you repair them?

 

[Tomster]

Do you typically resell them after you repair them?

No, but I am thinking of doing so.

 

[Tomster]

The market speaks for itself. How many R owners and track pack owners put their ridiculous priced wheels in the storage over the garage? It's not exaggeration to say a bunch, maybe even MOST.

I'm not certain I'd rock CF wheels even if they were the same price as lightweight fully forged wheels. The drawbacks aren't just theory or haters, they're significant. I have several dry carbon fiber parts on my car and I'll admit even with them, they come with drawbacks (other than price) and most of those aren't subjected to the spall and debris impacts of the wheels.

And that was mostly because in the early days repair options were not known nor were they understood how bad a wheel could be damaged and still repaired. Then came along the scare that if god forbit you damage a wheel, then there went 7K down the drain. People flocked to the forged wheel option as a solution.

I made it very clear how easy it is to repair a wheel. You can send it off, or you can do it yourself. Until you try it, you will never know how easy it really is.

For the god awful damage, I just bought a 3D printer. I have a 3D scanner. I plan to make permanent molds to perfectly match the contours of brand new OEM wheels. This makes even severe damage repairable to "like new".

Is that an R in your avatar photo? Did you ever have CF wheels? I have. I was once one of those scared people until I got off my ass and began repairing other people's mistakes.

Edited to add:
I don't see a red badge nor an R wing, so my guess is no to my question.

Another edit:
R model wheels are painted ebony black. Repairs don't get much easier.

CFTP wheels are CF weave. Clear epoxy, clear coat. Very easy.

 

[Angrey]

people pull them to keep them nice due to them being a unique first ever supplied kind of part for a special car - not because they have a realistic expectation that they will fail while driving. This is just stupid. You aren’t even making sense.

You're writing words in my mouth. I never said any of your implications. But in fairness, when the spalling penetrates the protective outer layers, the UV attack does become a concern and long term, if you leave it in the Sun, it will eventually degrade and fail. Not sure if anyone's ran them long enough with blemishes and minor damage for that to matter.

I wouldn't be concerned that the wheels would fail immediately, but long term, CF doesn't do well when subjected to extreme heat cycling or UV.

 

[Tomster]

You're writing words in my mouth. I never said any of your implications. But in fairness, when the spalling penetrates the protective outer layers, the UV attack does become a concern and long term, if you leave it in the Sun, it will eventually degrade and fail. Not sure if anyone's ran them long enough with blemishes and minor damage for that to matter.

I wouldn't be concerned that the wheels would fail immediately, but long term, CF doesn't do well when subjected to extreme heat cycling or UV.

I cant speak for the epoxy used to construct the R model wheels, but the CFTP wheels use a UV stable epoxy. My repair techniques utilize a UV resistant epoxy that stood out in the FL sun for 1 year continuous and showed no signs of yellowing or damage.

The R model wheels are painted. UV is no factor whatsoever.

The heat cycle concern is the reason we have the ceramic lining on the front wheels. I've measured the heat on a CF wheel after runs at Daytona. Agreed the inner barrel near the rotor is subject to a lot of heat, but the rest of the wheel really isn't.

The curing temps for heat cure epoxy is around the 200-300F range. The non ceramic coated portion of the wheels don't see that kind of heat and I don't think the inside of the ceramic does either.

 

[Angrey]

I cant speak for the epoxy used to construct the R model wheels, but the CFTP wheels use a UV stable epoxy. My repair techniques utilize a UV resistant epoxy that stood out in the FL sun for 1 year continuous and showed no signs of yellowing or damage.

The R model wheels are painted. UV is no factor whatsoever.

The heat cycle concern is the reason we have the ceramic lining on the front wheels. I've measured the heat on a CF wheel after runs at Daytona. Agreed the inner barrel near the rotor is subject to a lot of heat, but the rest of the wheel really isn't.

The curing temps for heat cure epoxy is around the 300-400F range. The non ceramic coated portion of the wheels don't see that kind of heat and I don't think the inside of the ceramic does either.

I'm talking about when the rocks get scraped between the barrel and the heat shielding and damage/remove it. But yeah, the engineers realized cook/cool cycling of the binder probably isn't healthy long term. The fibers themselves can handle just about anything, it's the binder that's the biggest issue in most CF detractors.

I think if they could get the production costs down and there was more access to reputable repair methods it would be a lot more attractive.

Furthermore, anyone trying to buy an actual replacement has found their options to be frustratingly limited. So there's that aspect as well. As well as tire/wheel shops that won't touch them (I can do most things but I don't own a mount or a balance machine). In my military days I could have access to the post shop and do my own mounting/balancing, but I've read reports of frustrated R owners who couldn't find anyone willing to take the liability of touching the wheels (even Ford dealerships).

My entire point is that the improvements over a nice set of fully forged alloy wheels are incremental and the costs are significantly higher. I think most people could live with that (we're all accustomed to paying top dollar to squeeze out the last few %) but that's not the end of the story, the CF wheels come with other drawbacks and considerations and that's what puts it squarely in the "nope" category for me. If it works for you and yours, hats to you. Knock it out and make videos for us.

BTW I have the same outlier opinion of alcantera. Now we're seeing seats go for even MORE ridiculous pricing as people who actually use the car regularly and insist on replacing original parts discover you can't get them and they wear the bolters, seams, the wheels get matted down (and only have so many clean/condition cycles before they don't return to exactly new) etc. I've never really liked alcantera as a normal or heavy use material. Looks cool in commercials and brochures though.

 

[Tomster]

I'm talking about when the rocks get scraped between the barrel and the heat shielding and damage/remove it. But yeah, the engineers realized cook/cool cycling of the binder probably isn't healthy long term. The fibers themselves can handle just about anything, it's the binder that's the biggest issue in most CF detractors.

I think if they could get the production costs down and there was more access to reputable repair methods it would be a lot more attractive.

Furthermore, anyone trying to buy an actual replacement has found their options to be frustratingly limited. So there's that aspect as well. As well as tire/wheel shops that won't touch them (I can do most things but I don't own a mount or a balance machine). In my military days I could have access to the post shop and do my own mounting/balancing, but I've read reports of frustrated R owners who couldn't find anyone willing to take the liability of touching the wheels (even Ford dealerships).

My entire point is that the improvements over a nice set of fully forged alloy wheels are incremental and the costs are significantly higher. I think most people could live with that (we're all accustomed to paying top dollar to squeeze out the last few %) but that's not the end of the story, the CF wheels come with other drawbacks and considerations and that's what puts it squarely in the "nope" category for me. If it works for you and yours, hats to you. Knock it out and make videos for us.

BTW I have the same outlier opinion of alcantera. Now we're seeing seats go for even MORE ridiculous pricing as people who actually use the car regularly and insist on replacing original parts discover you can't get them and they wear the bolters, seams, the wheels get matted down (and only have so many clean/condition cycles before they don't return to exactly new) etc. I've never really liked alcantera as a normal or heavy use material. Looks cool in commercials and brochures though.

Well, at least we can agree on alcantera.

I see wheels come available all the time for cheap. Dont wait until a wheel needs repair to try to buy one, get one when a deal comes along. Have a standing search on ebay.

I am in the process of repairing the ceramic on a wheel I picked up from a dealership for $700. The wheel itself is nearly perfect. A wheel weight dislodged and got caught in the caliper. No big deal. It will look like it never happened.

Here is my point. Get a set of beaters and repair them if keeping the original wheels is that important to you. That's what I did.

 

[ecoboost321]

Great discussion here from owners of these high tech performance carbon fiber wheels ! I bought stanglife’s 2016 GT350R, and I recall he had 12,000 street miles on them at the time. I have switched to Forgeline wheels for street use. And from experience, it’s noticeable the turn in and stiffness and reduced NVH when I use the OEM carbon fiber wheels exclusively at the track. It’s a great setup, and what I envision the Ford Performance engineers intended anyway, given the initial years had a Base model GT350R (more weight reduction, AC and stereo delete, no backup camera, etc)

 

[ecoboost321]

And that was mostly because in the early days repair options were not known nor were they understood how bad a wheel could be damaged and still repaired. Then came along the scare that if god forbit you damage a wheel, then there went 7K down the drain. People flocked to the forged wheel option as a solution.

I made it very clear how easy it is to repair a wheel. You can send it off, or you can do it yourself. Until you try it, you will never know how easy it really is.

For the god awful damage, I just bought a 3D printer. I have a 3D scanner. I plan to make permanent molds to perfectly match the contours of brand new OEM wheels. This makes even severe damage repairable to "like new".

Is that an R in your avatar photo? Did you ever have CF wheels? I have. I was once one of those scared people until I got off my ass and began repairing other people's mistakes.

Edited to add:
I don't see a red badge nor an R wing, so my guess is no to my question.

Another edit:
R model wheels are painted ebony black. Repairs don't get much easier.

CFTP wheels are CF weave. Clear epoxy, clear coat. Very easy.

Also, don’t you run your GT500 at Daytona at full speed with the OEM Carbon Fiber wheels ? If so, that’s says a lot right there beyond the discussion around cosmetic damage and repairs right there, in my opinion.

 

[Hack]

I really liked the alcantera, but I only lived with my GT350 3 1/2 years and 30 some thousand miles. I could see maybe if you are driving a ton more than that you might have wear issues eventually.

 

[stanglife]

I'm talking about when the rocks get scraped between the barrel and the heat shielding and damage/remove it. But yeah, the engineers realized cook/cool cycling of the binder probably isn't healthy long term. The fibers themselves can handle just about anything, it's the binder that's the biggest issue in most CF detractors.

I think if they could get the production costs down and there was more access to reputable repair methods it would be a lot more attractive.

Furthermore, anyone trying to buy an actual replacement has found their options to be frustratingly limited. So there's that aspect as well. As well as tire/wheel shops that won't touch them (I can do most things but I don't own a mount or a balance machine). In my military days I could have access to the post shop and do my own mounting/balancing, but I've read reports of frustrated R owners who couldn't find anyone willing to take the liability of touching the wheels (even Ford dealerships).

My entire point is that the improvements over a nice set of fully forged alloy wheels are incremental and the costs are significantly higher. I think most people could live with that (we're all accustomed to paying top dollar to squeeze out the last few %) but that's not the end of the story, the CF wheels come with other drawbacks and considerations and that's what puts it squarely in the "nope" category for me. If it works for you and yours, hats to you. Knock it out and make videos for us.

BTW I have the same outlier opinion of alcantera. Now we're seeing seats go for even MORE ridiculous pricing as people who actually use the car regularly and insist on replacing original parts discover you can't get them and they wear the bolters, seams, the wheels get matted down (and only have so many clean/condition cycles before they don't return to exactly new) etc. I've never really liked alcantera as a normal or heavy use material. Looks cool in commercials and brochures though.

you’re making a lot of stuff up. A scratch that start spalling? UV damage inside the barrel where no UV is likely? You state that it’s hard to buy a replacement but they are on eBay or some other marketplace at almost any given week. The costs are higher is about the only negative. Maybe you could say that the clear coat used seems very soft and prone to marring…I wouldn’t argue that. They are at the same risk of damage via tire changer as any nice wheel.

the exact same risks apply to the carbon revolution wheels as any really nice aftermarket wheel. Also note the price isn’t even that much more than many well-known wheel brands.
You didn’t get them - and now you make a case that you wouldn’t want them. Understood.

 

[WildHorse]

Wheels ARE a wear item.

big difference between wear and abuse. Wheels don't wear out if properly maintained. or maybe they do after like a 1000 years or something.

Sponsored