New to tuning. Educate me

Discussion in 'V8 5.0L Engine / Mods: Bolt-ons, Exhaust, Tuning' started by mysta_sandman, Aug 4, 2019.

  1. mysta_sandman

    mysta_sandman Well-Known Member

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    Like the title says, I'm new to tuning. I recently purchased an Ngauge and I'm now looking at CAI (Steeda, JLT and Roush).

    With the tune I'm looking to get a little more HP and Torque. Nothing crazy. I want to make sure that I'm doing the right things.

    So what do I need to know in order to keep my engine safe and not run my car into the ground.
     
  2. Zinc03svt

    Zinc03svt Well-Known Member

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    Read.
     
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  3. Bikeman315

    Bikeman315 Well-Known Member

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    Here!

    https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/search/2760854/?q=Tunes&o=date&c[title_only]=1
     
  4. OP
    OP
    mysta_sandman

    mysta_sandman Well-Known Member

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  5. Dutch44

    Dutch44 Active Member

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    #5 Dutch44, Aug 4, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2019
    Tuning is the present future of technologies to enhance the performance of your vehicle , this takes us out of the old days of advanced timing by turning the distributor , adjusting points contacts , metering rods and jets of the carburetor . Now its controlled by information into the computer's of the vehicle through multiple data collection points located on the vehicle and the sensors , the different variables are adjusted to your liking depending on what a person is looking for through the software program and the individual's abilities to comprehend the perimeters for timing advance , fuel trim ETC . Anyone can do this with a program as long as they comprehend it , or you can pay someone that has experience in doing it , some products like Ngauge are only Ngauge program compatible , SCT X4 is open source kinda like linux's software. SCT sells the software but you get to do the work yourself or pay some one . It all depends on how deep down the rabbit hole you are willing to go to do the work keep in mind you are able to modify things that you couldn't do back in the old days so you can dump a ton of fuel into the cylinder into the oil spinning a rod bearing , Roush makes a tune , Team Beef cake makes tunes , if it was me I would call team beef cake .. as I mentioned before anyone can learn this it's time consuming and you need brain food , SCT has the program to purchase and some educational materials to kind of get you going the rest is lots and lots of research , I personally have pondered doing it , people would harp on me doing my own gear sets but I saved thousands learning it myself with a few minor mishaps easily fixed .
     
  6. Dutch44

    Dutch44 Active Member

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    I would look at the fact you are just increasing the air intake by a few simple points , don't lean it out keep the fuel alone , maybe a little timing advance . Start there I never regretted timing advance in any of my set ups even in the old days , that was the first adjustment , then a little richer on the fuel , I have over did some carb modifications dumped a huge high volume fuel pump and burnt the valves . Beyond that its exhaust systems and gears ..that's my opinions
     
  7. TRPCANA

    TRPCANA Well-Known Member

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    Your the one im selling the ngauge to lol, That being said, a tune will wake the vehicle up quite a bit and is used to fine tune the vehicle to your goals and driving habits. They will change shift points and certain other settings to make the throttle response and overall engine performance more aggressive and thus unlock more power.

    As far as the CAI is concerned this is a touchy subject. After much research myself i have concluded for a simple bolt on car/ lightly modified vehicles a CAI is utterly useless. The stock air box flows plenty and the majority of gains seen by the tune required CAI's are from the tune itself. For example project goldmember, Lethal performances own test car, saw a gain of about 2 rwhp when going from an E85 tune to an E85 tune with a JLT "CAI". I will post their chart below. This was shown on a 2018 car, now for a 15-17 if thats what you have there might be some gains from upgrading the stock box but in reality i wouldnt be surprised if it was noothing more than 5rwhp or so. In truth a drop in air filter and intake tube will likely net you the same results. Now on more heavier modified vehicles bigger intakes can provide more gains but these are the boosted applications or max effort NA builds. Your everyday tune and bolt on 5.0 wont see much however. GM_numbers1_zpsugae6rp4.jpg
     
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  8. Shifting_Gears

    Shifting_Gears Well-Known Member

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    Basics of tuning:

    As you increase airflow in to and out of the engine, the stock tuning parameters won’t maximize the additional airflow and will try to keep the engines parameters within stock form, which is very conservative.

    Tuning targets timing and fuel, large scale. There’s MANY other parameters tuning can change, including automatic transmission performance.

    With a tune you are generally going to run 91 (depending on state), 93 or E85. The higher the octane, the more timing advance the engine can sustain before detonation occurs, which is pre-ignition of fuel and causes knocking and can cause engine damage. Luckily all your sensors are designed to listen for knock and pull timing if sensed. Greater octane and greater timing will typically yield the most gain on a naturally aspirated engine. E85 is king when it comes to resisting detonation, as it has an octane typically around 110.

    Fuel trims are also targeted. Stock tunes are generally rich. There’s a saying “lean is mean” but too lean can burn your pistons. So tuners will target a sweet spot to maximize power and keep from running too high of cylinder temps. Again, E85 is the ruler here as it burns cooler than gasoline. It also tanks your fuel economy.

    Tuners also target areas like throttle response/sensitivity to reduce response time from the electronic throttle system and eliminate some of the dead spots felt when driving a stock car.

    The actual device you tune with should be based on what tuner you decide you want to go with. As mentioned Lund, SCT, etc are all popular platforms. Most if not all devices will allow you to datalog, which is see and record data the tuner is pulling from various engine sensors. Anything from intake temps, coolant temp, timing retard/advance, fuel trims, DTC’s (diagnostic trouble codes) etc.
     
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  9. 69mach1-395

    69mach1-395 Well-Known Member

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    What's missing from the table above is the cost of each mod and $ per hp.
     
  10. TRPCANA

    TRPCANA Well-Known Member

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    well for the question OP had about CAI, considering the JLT is $350 new, for a 2rwhp gain and a loss of tq POST e85 tune, doesn't really seem all that worth it to me. That same $350 can be invested into the BMR cradle lockout and some vertical links and net some better results due to the reduced wheel hop. It is OP's car however.
     
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  11. Bluemustang

    Bluemustang Well-Known Member

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    First of all the OP has a 2016 GT. So what 18+ GT owner say about tunes & CAIs do not apply. The GenIII engine is different. Second, there is no lag in the electronic throttle control. You cannot change that. Those pedal commander type devices don't change that either. What tuners can do is adjust the torque demand tables so when you put your foot down it will command a higher torque than the stock tune does. This can make the engine feel more responsive.

    OP you will see gains with a tune & CAI. The larger cone filter and large MAF diameter will yield gains in the upper RPMs. The tune makes the biggest impact, the rest is likely attributable to the higher flowing cone filter.

    My advice is going with a reputable tuner. I highly recommend Lund & Dakota specifically. Dakota is awesome.

    Honestly I would stay away from the Steeda CAI. The JLT is good but will suffer higher Intake Air Temperatures (IAT) which can affect peak engine timing advance and thereby performance in certain situations. TBH, for a good happy medium, you should give a good look at the GT350 CAI. Larger MAF diameter, large conical filter, decent hood sealing design, and stock-like MAF signal. It's OEM quality. Probably not as good as a completely enclosed airbox, but it performs good.
     
  12. Nuked

    Nuked Well-Known Member

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    On pump gas you will see/feel the most improvements from the removal of TQ limiters, and other limiters. On an auto the shift schedule will be noticeable as well. Power wise you will gain some, but not an enormous amount. The OEM tune is not bad at all, I have seen much much worse. Ford does a good job of putting a safe, reliable tune on the car that makes efficient use of the power available taking into account the sacrifices for longevity, fuel quality variance and driver variance. Again, this is on a basically stock car with pump gas.
     
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  13. TRPCANA

    TRPCANA Well-Known Member

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    Easy there killer, im aware the year car he has. I don't have any 15-17 dyno data on hand at the moment so I provided what I had as an example, however the overall point still applies. On a mildly modified car, open element CAI's wont really add much and OP will see more result from the tune. I agree to stay away from the Steeda CAI, a few people have run into box fitment issues and quality problems, I had this issue as well. I also agree with the high IATs I have seen some in excess of 160 degrees.
     
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